"Diplomatic" victory doesn't involve any diplomacy

[sgrig]

Does anyone else think that the diplomatic victory is just lame, and far too easy? In order to win you don't have to make any friends with other civs, because unless you liberate them, they'll never vote for you anyway. It's all about city-states, and influence on them. I usually have a number of city-state allies throughout the game, but when I build the UN, I just buy the missing 2 or 3 votes, and that's it - guaranteed diplomatic win!

On the other hand, I can do whatever I like with other civs - declare war on them, raze their cities, etc, and none of this affects my chances of a diplomatic win.

In Civ4 you really had to work hard to make friends, and had to be really careful not to offend the civs that are your friends. Generally in Civ4 I had the feeling that I'm part of an international community - with its blocks, alliances, etc. However in Civ5 it's just a bunch of players - rather than a bunch of civilizations. So I don't get such an immersive experience, which is a shame.

 

[Olleus]

I agree the diplomatic victory is, in effect, just an economic victory.

 

[Evocatus]

True. Although I understand that the AI is supposed to vote for themselves, since they want to win the game, I think Firaxis might as well just scrap this victory type, and go for something else.

 

[Jaraxle]

Or a military victory if you get your votes from Liberated leaders/CS

 

[troab]

Generally in Civ4 I had the feeling that I'm part of an international community - with its blocks, alliances, etc. However in Civ5 it's just a bunch of players - rather than a bunch of civilizations. So I don't get such an immersive experience, which is a shame.

Yes! A bunch of players, not civilizations.. that's how I feel and you put words to it. I mentioned in another thread that one leader actually told me to stop "collecting the wonders of the world"

How did he know that there were only a limited number of wonders to collect? Did somebody send him the manual?

I thought I was just a really cultured society building really cool things that were so incredible they could not be duplicated by any other society...

 

[DalekDavros]

In Civ4 you really had to work hard to make friends, and had to be really careful not to offend the civs that are your friends. Generally in Civ4 I had the feeling that I'm part of an international community - with its blocks, alliances, etc. However in Civ5 it's just a bunch of players - rather than a bunch of civilizations. So I don't get such an immersive experience, which is a shame.

In Civ 4, the easiest way to get a diplomatic victory was to go on a rampage and make the required percentage of the world's population into your vassals.

I agree the diplomatic victory is, in effect, just an economic victory.

Pretty much, with a healthy dose of military thrown in to protect the CSs and attack anyone else who gets uppity. Of course, this is how the United States conducts "diplomacy" in the real world (except that they don't make a distinction between "civilizations" and "city-states"), so from a realism standpoint it works great.

 

[keisukekun]

speaking of which why is there no economic victory anymore. Just 4 victory types is lackluster. Hope we can get religion back in with a religous victory with a mod maybe

 

[narmox]

In Civ4 you really had to work hard to make friends, and had to be really careful not to offend the civs that are your friends. Generally in Civ4 I had the feeling that I'm part of an international community - with its blocks, alliances, etc. However in Civ5 it's just a bunch of players - rather than a bunch of civilizations. So I don't get such an immersive experience, which is a shame.

Actually in my current game as Japan, on Prince. Other players: Iroquois, America, Aztec, Egypt and China..

There ARE blocs (in this one game, at least). America+China+Egypt are almost always going to war against the same people. Sometimes they go to war against Aztecs, sometimes they go to war against Egypt, one time all of them except the Aztecs went to war against me (due to my warmongering... ie liberating 1 city-state from the Aztecs and defending Lhasa against Aztecs and Egypt). But always that core is there...

Except now the bloc is disintegrating since I beat them off (well the Iroquois which was fighting the war alone for the whole bloc), and am slowly picking off Egypt, while China stands by asking me when we'll go to war against Monty again (Monty is pretty much powerless after being beaten by Egypt). America stands by on its own continent and islands, probably building up techs and armies to try to kill me later... lol

I think the only reasons the blocs exist is because I allied with Lhasa, which was at a chokepoint right between Monty and Ramses, which prevented both of them from owning that whole continent (that also included China). Kept the balance of power and allowed more civs to thrive and make alliances.

Narmox.