Do people actually go to "Palm readers" or fortunetellers/psychics?

[Atlas14]

Patter, as used in magic tricks or w/ psychics, is the conversing they do. Its an important part of the trick. It can help w/ misdirection, it can help gain useful info for the magician, and also helps build trust w/ the audience.

I do not remember him talking in patter. He was wispering though, and merely asking for volunteers. I do not recall it being fast speech or anything.

So, the volunteer would pull out the item then, as the psychic read the info, the volunteer would match it to the card/license/photo, is this correct?

Correct.

 

[Woodgar]

No such stand existed.

There was nothing for sale at all anywhere on the campus on the day of the show?

I find that harder to believe than the woman having genuine psychic powers.

I understand what you are saying, but I was with my friends 2 hours before the show, and the psycics were not even in Bridgewater 2 hours before the show.

How do you know?

The information gathering could have taken place days, or in some cases weeks, before the show. The psychic and all associated people that took place in the performance may not have been around two hours before the show, but what about all of the other people that may have been involved? By the time the psychic was performing for you they may have moved on looking for victims in the next town.

The kid did not "guess", the kid counted. And the envelope with the attendence number was the same with the other two detailed guesses. There was no switching going on because we were watching her the whole time.

But that's the whole nature of sleight-of-hand. It happens even though you are watching. You don't see any changes taking place as the magician uses skill, cunning and dexterity to achieve the effect whilst in the full gaze of the audience.

 

[.Shane.]

I do not remember him talking in patter. He was wispering though, and merely asking for volunteers. I do not recall it being fast speech or anything.

It doesn't necessarily mean "fast" speech. Just think of it like a performer warming up a crowd. Its just the verbal interplay.

Correct.

Well, based on what I've read to date, I'd bet they had a person or two placed in the theater somewhere who read the information to the psychic. They could be in the light rigging, side of the stage, in the crowd itself, etc....

TV Preachers actually are very good at this one and really brought it to an art form.

At any rate, I apologize for being so harsh in some of my posts, but I really have your best interests at heart. You've given me enough info to see one easy way this was pulled off, maybe two.

If you can dig up her name, I'll do so more research.

But, not being there, its too hard to remember and get all the details of the set-up correct. Because, believe it or not, the setup (lighting, how the performer presents herself, layout of seating, etc...) has a big role in how you pull off a trick.

At any rate, like I said, give me the name, and I'll see what I can find, otherwise, I think this is not hard to debunk based on what you've given me. I would implore you to reconsider your belief here, otherwise, one day, you may end up being taken for a lot more than just an hour of your time.

Cheers!

 

[Atlas14]

There was nothing for sale at all anywhere on the campus on the day of the show?

After the show, when she was promoting her psychicness she was selling internet trials of her work. But the stand was not there before the show.

How do you know?

The information gathering could have taken place days, or in some cases weeks, before the show. The psychic and all associated people that took place in the performance may not have been around two hours before the show, but what about all of the other people that may have been involved? By the time the psychic was performing for you they may have moved on looking for victims in the next town.

They were in a whole different state two days before. Besides, they would be wasting more money on trying to interview the entire town of Bridgewater than they would be actually earning in profit.

But that's the whole nature of sleight-of-hand. It happens even though you are watching. You don't see any changes taking place as the magician uses skill, cunning and dexterity to achieve the effect whilst in the full gaze of the audience.

I recognize such "cunning" exists, but it is not plausible to assume she had a million envelopes with various answers on them, with one being the correct. It would take minutes to go sifting through the amount of envelopes she would have written to accommodate all the possible answers.

 

[Atlas14]

It doesn't necessarily mean "fast" speech. Just think of it like a performer warming up a crowd. Its just the verbal interplay.

I do not believe there was any such speech. It was normal, necesary questions pertaining to the items.

Well, based on what I've read to date, I'd bet they had a person or two placed in the theater somewhere who read the information to the psychic. They could be in the light rigging, side of the stage, in the crowd itself, etc....

It was all college students. And even if someone was reading numbers off, we were focused on them at the time of the reading so we would have seen the signaling and such taking place. The assistant could not see the serial numbers or photos in most cases either.

At any rate, I apologize for being so harsh in some of my posts, but I really have your best interests at heart. You've given me enough info to see one easy way this was pulled off, maybe two.

Quite alright! I apologize as well.

If you can dig up her name, I'll do so more research.

When I go to dinner at 5:30, I'll see my friends and some administrators I could ask.

Thanks for walking through this!

 

[.Shane.]

I do not believe there was any such speech. It was normal, necesary questions pertaining to the items.

The "necessary speech" is the patter.

It was all college students. And even if someone was reading numbers off, we were focused on them at the time of the reading so we would have seen the signaling and such taking place. The assistant could not see the serial numbers or photos in most cases either.

The "spotter" would not have been visible and been reading them into a transmitter. You realize some ear pieces are invisible to the human eye, right?

I'm 99% it was not the assistant. They are part of the diversion.

So, in essence, I'm saying that it someone in the control booth or some similarly good vantage point, maybe even 2 people in different spots who then read the info via a transmitter, to the psychic.

 

[warpus]

Guess what call Atlas foolish or illogical all you want. His critics have provided ZERO evidence against him other than lame cop-outs such as "well if it was real it would be scientifically proven" "if it was real, she would be a millionaire".

You're the one making the claim that this is real, the burden of proof is on you, not us.

 

[Atlas14]

Shane, the Psychic pair was called "Envasions"

 

[Atlas14]

So, in essence, I'm saying that it someone in the control booth or some similarly good vantage point, maybe even 2 people in different spots who then read the info via a transmitter, to the psychic.

This is an old room, with no control booths.

 

[King Flevance]

Yeah, but only if it is the truth. The way it stands right now, you think you know the truth and I think I know the truth. My truth is supported by evidence, while your truth is supported by speculation.

Actually your view is supported by lack of evidence. My view is supported by evidence.

Forget the Theory of Relativity... you're not really getting it. Pretend we're talking about the Theory of the World on a giant Turtle. That was based purely on testimony and speculation.

I am not the one missing the point. If we the truth was the world on a Giant turtle but there was no eveidence for it yet, then the people that had been lead to believe this in their search for truth in life, yet offered no "proof", they would be right.

Up until very recently, science said meteors could not exist. Impossible rocks falling from the sky. The damn uneducated commoners are just making this up. But people who had seen them KNEW they existed. They rarely had any proof of it even if they followed the trail in the sky to where it 'hit' ANd when they did, they had a clod of rock and dirt. Which scientists laughed at saying "That isn't proof, it is a rock."

And if 99% of the people who were claiming that the Theory of ______ was true were debunked as frauds who simply made it all up, the THeory of ______ would not be considered very solid.

Just like meteors. Yet, they exist. And people blinding themselves with science are the ones that calling people fools. Put the word meteors in your blank.

Yeah, but when you encounter something strange, something that has not been explained yet, what makes you think that simply your intuitin is enough to explain it? Introducing the supernatural "just because it's a nifty explanation of what happened" doesn't cut it.

I never claimed to understand it. I claimed I know that something along these lines exists.
I am highly confident that if proof was ever found on this, it would prove to be natural and not supernatural.

That's like saying.. Jesus didn't have enough proof to prove that he was the son of God, and he was anyway, therefore the world lies on a giant turtle. Just because we don't have evidence for it doesn't make it false.

Yet, this is EXACTLY the reason so many people on this site and outside of it, claim he was false. So yes, in the scientific community, it does make it false.

Yeah, but unless you have evidence you can't say it's true either[/ b].

Yes, I can because "I have seen a meteor with my own eyes." I am not worried about if you or anyone else believe me or not.

Yet there is nothing conclusive that would ever support such a statement. When you test the theory of relativity you dont end up with 'murky and undeterminable' results, each and every time.

The Theory of Psychics (imagine for a second that that's what you're claiming is called) has to make predictions. These predictinos were tested for in a lab - yet the results did not back up the predictions, statistically. That's the point - if there was any truth to this, we would at least have some sort of positive data that this isn't just BS.

It is because we use equiptment that is meant to measure things we already know about because we don't know the equiptment needed to actually look in to this. It isn't our fault, I will say. We just don't have the equiptment to measure whatever it is that needs to be measured.

If this was found out, our Theory of Physics would either have to be reconstructed. Or at the very leastit would need tremendously expanded upon. We have still yet to apply properties to spacetime. And guess where this would lie. Einstein is also the man that said that time travel was possible. But we have yet to prove that, thus it is impossible.

If you couldn't use this proof to make a solid case that this thing is real, then your proof is worthless.

Off to work I go.

Worthless to you. Which I said from the start.

 

[King Flevance]

Do you refer 'all the world' as everyone at the planet Earth? When I can assure you that there was relatively few people that have actually heard of him, let alone called him a fool. So if I would be so cheeky as to answer the question, I would answer 'no'.

I refer to all the world that called him fools. Yes, they were fools and he proved it.

 

[.Shane.]

"Envasions" or "invasions"?

Re: control booth, that's niggling, the point is that all theatres/auditoriums have side rooms/boothes, etc... somewhere. There are plenty of ways to see around the room.

I know, I used to hang out w/ a guy who worked in my college's theatre. They're pretty sneaky places.

 

[Atlas14]

"Envasions" or "invasions"?

Re: control booth, that's niggling, the point is that all theatres/auditoriums have side rooms/boothes, etc... somewhere. There are plenty of ways to see around the room.

I know, I used to hang out w/ a guy who worked in my college's theatre. They're pretty sneaky places.

It wasn't really an auditorium style though, just like a formal side room with a mini elevated stage. Actually there were side rooms, but the doors were shut for the show.

The paper said "Envasions" The girl at the front desk thought I was odd asking for such random information.

 

[mdwh]

I like to see science advance but I'd also like to see people be free to explore other areas of study that are of interest to them. Most of the scientist who embark on a crusade to debunk claims of the paranormal never really accomplish much. I think their time would have been better spent on doing some real research.

Perhaps they would be less likely to do this if cranks didn't claim things existed based on anecdotal evidence.

And on that note, I think the time of palm readers, fortune tellers, psychics and everyone who gives them their time would also be better spent on doing something productive.

And let's face it, if scientists focused on real research rather than trying to disprove fairy tales, believers would then be criticising them for *not* researching it, claiming that the only reason there isn't scientific evidence is because of some conspiracy that scientists don't want to investigate. I know, because I've seen people make these very claims that there isn't enough research. So which is it?

 

[mdwh]

So go ahead, keep providing zero evidence, it doesn't really bother me because I know what I saw, and there was absolutely no chance for it to have been "trickery" or a fake. End of story.

I could say the same to you: go ahead providing zero evidence. It doesn't matter to me, I'm simply not going to believe in everything simply because I can't disprove it.

And I presume you don't either, unless you believe that there's an invisible elephant under my bed? Go on, disprove it.

 

[Atlas14]

I could say the same to you: go ahead providing zero evidence. It doesn't matter to me, I'm simply not going to believe in everything simply because I can't disprove it.

And I presume you don't either, unless you believe that there's an invisible elephant under my bed? Go on, disprove it.

You probably did not read a word I wrote in this thread relating to the details of the show, so why don't you stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[mdwh]

You probably did not read a word I wrote in this thread relating to the details of the show, so why don't you stop embarrassing yourself.

Yes, I've seen the non-scientific anecdotal evidence.

 

[mdwh]

I am not the one missing the point. If we the truth was the world on a Giant turtle but there was no eveidence for it yet, then the people that had been lead to believe this in their search for truth in life, yet offered no "proof", they would be right.

If, If, If...

The question is, how likely is it that someone is correct with their theory, if there is no evidence other than hearsay?

Up until very recently, science said meteors could not exist.

Do you have more info on this? Which established scientific theory said that meteors could not exist?

 

[Atlas14]

Yes, I've seen the non-scientific anecdotal evidence.

1. First of all, science is a series of observations.
2. You have not disproved anything I have said, showed any faults in the psychic's work, nothing. It is unscientific to simply reject all observations for the heck of it. Do not preach to me about "science" and "scientific", I am a Biology major.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

What makes you think everyone wants to be the object of a scientific interrogation, or "study" as you call it?

Guess what call Atlas foolish or illogical all you want. His critics have provided ZERO evidence against him other than lame cop-outs such as "well if it was real it would be scientifically proven" "if it was real, she would be a millionaire".

So go ahead, keep providing zero evidence, it doesn't really bother me because I know what I saw, and there was absolutely no chance for it to have been "trickery" or a fake. End of story. Be skeptical all you want, you were not there. Some people are so ignorantly stubborn about accepting observations as truth.

Everyone doesn't have to want to be the object of a study. Just one person that actually has the ability has to, just one and then psychic abilities are proven. Anyway, I see where you're coming from. You have seen something that cannot be explained by modern science, so you believe that the explanation lies outside it. However, a testimony over the internet isn't sufficient reason to start believing in psychic powers, which is why we retain our point of view. As we have different opinions on this subject, we naturally try to convert each other. I suspect that nothing short of seeing an unquestionably psychic phenomenon ourselves will convince us, and nothing short of seeing a scientifically plausible explanation for the psychic's trick will convince you.

Anyway, what irritates me more here is these people who claim that supernatural powers are real without a scrap of evidence, anecdotal or otherwise. What do you mean when you say that you "know" that these things are true? A voice that speaks to you and only you, and that only you can hear? You might call it "spirituality" or "being open to God," but I call it delusions and insanity.