fredmeister
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2009
- Messages
- 20
E.g. If I set victory conditions to military ones (occupation / domination) will the AI be more offensive compared having all victory conditions switched on?
Do victory conditions affect AI strategy / aggression?
- Thread starter fredmeister
- Start date
Cyc
Looking for the door...
The AI will not care how well you do culturally. And if you remove the UN victory plus the Space Race, they won't care if they get to the modern age. This probably means they will use the spare gold (not used for research) and the big builder cities (not used for Wonders or cultural buildings) for producing military.
vorlon_mi
Emperor
That's an interesting question. I usually play with the default set of victory conditions enabled, and I often see AI teching away, towards spaceship parts.
If the program code for the AI checks that spaceship victory is switched off, does it build more units than it would usually? Are they more likely to start wars? Or would they just sit back, expand a little, and hope for domination or histographic? Does the AI ever actively pursue a cultural victory? I know that they will try to build the UN, just like they try to build other world wonders.
If the program code for the AI checks that spaceship victory is switched off, does it build more units than it would usually? Are they more likely to start wars? Or would they just sit back, expand a little, and hope for domination or histographic? Does the AI ever actively pursue a cultural victory? I know that they will try to build the UN, just like they try to build other world wonders.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Not necessarily. In the post above, I clarified it a little more. But in answer to this question, if the spaceship victory was turned off, the AI may try building the UN first and vote you out. If Culture hasn't been turned off, you may lose that way (see the emperor 20K game in the Stories forum, -Sumeria-). If spaceship, diplomacy, and culture are turned off, then the AI will have no need for the Modern Age (unless it wants to build MIs and MAs. So it will have more gold to spend on units. If the AI gets a military advantage, what does it normally do?
Probably.
Probably not.
Always, unless you have culture turned off.
vorlon_mi
Emperor
Cyc, I want to better understand what you mean by "the AI will have no use for the modern age." In your experience, does that mean that the AI dramatically decreases its research rate, once it has completed the Industrial Age techs? Or even set it to zero?
Assuming that cultural VC is still enabled but spaceship VC is not, then the AI would have an incentive to discover a few Modern Age techs ... to build the wonders. "Oooh, shiny!"
As you note, when the AI have a military advantage, they nearly always attack someone... either the human or a weaker AI. It would seem to me that part of the code for the AI would be to pursue a military advantage by continuing to build units with the best-available-at-the-time attack values. Mech Infantry have such an improved attack value vs. Infantry that I would expect the AI to continue to research those techs, esp. if the human player has discovered them and built any MI units.
With all the ironic stories about the India civilizations (with Gandhi as their leader) using nukes, I would expect one or more AIs to build the Manhattan Project.
I should try playing a game with SS turned off, to see what the AI do in the late game. At the higher difficulty levels, the AI would use its production advantages to try to gain a military advantage and crush the human player in the Industrial or Middle Ages; the game might not last into Modern Times.
Assuming that cultural VC is still enabled but spaceship VC is not, then the AI would have an incentive to discover a few Modern Age techs ... to build the wonders. "Oooh, shiny!"
As you note, when the AI have a military advantage, they nearly always attack someone... either the human or a weaker AI. It would seem to me that part of the code for the AI would be to pursue a military advantage by continuing to build units with the best-available-at-the-time attack values. Mech Infantry have such an improved attack value vs. Infantry that I would expect the AI to continue to research those techs, esp. if the human player has discovered them and built any MI units.
With all the ironic stories about the India civilizations (with Gandhi as their leader) using nukes, I would expect one or more AIs to build the Manhattan Project.
I should try playing a game with SS turned off, to see what the AI do in the late game. At the higher difficulty levels, the AI would use its production advantages to try to gain a military advantage and crush the human player in the Industrial or Middle Ages; the game might not last into Modern Times.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
In my opinion, the only reason for the AI to seek techs getting them into the Modern Age is to attain a Victory Condition qualification. The UN being one, launching a Spaceship another. If both of these VCs are turned off, the priority of getting into the Modern Age for the AI is greatly diminished. The AI will already be able to calculate if it will stand a good chance of doubling your culture AND breaking 100K for a Culture Victory. In my games, they never stand a chance in the Culture Victory category. So for my games, if SS, UN, and culture are turned off, the only reason for the AI to strive for enough research to enter the Modern Age is for the Military units.
Let's say some of the more agressive tribes decide they want MIs. That's good news for me, as it means more competition. But what else, besides MAs are they there for? So military would be the main reason or cause to journey there.
For a while, I would not play with the UN enabled, because to me that lead to a better game. Then I started shutting off the Spaceship, because it prompted the AI to get off their butts and build a military to fight with. The reason for this was because they had more gold from lack of research. And they weren't trying to steal Wonders, as once I'd gotten the Theory of Evolution they were left in the dust. So their bigger builders were free to build military.
Keep in mind that the larger AI nations were already embroiled in war, with me or others for quite a while. I'm not one to let good Cavalry go to waste. So with priorities already on war or defense, the knowledge that they can't get the Cultural Victory, the UN Victory, or launch, the AI has to determine whether getting into the Modern Age is worth it or not. That's when I start gifting technologies to the slower nations, hoping they will push forward and put up a good fight. But a lot of "less-aggressive" nations won't.
I think I may have gotten off-track a bit, but I may have answered your question. Removing the reasons for getting to the Modern Age will affect the AIs drive. At which time it will most likely resort to the base strategy of war.
Let's say some of the more agressive tribes decide they want MIs. That's good news for me, as it means more competition. But what else, besides MAs are they there for? So military would be the main reason or cause to journey there.
For a while, I would not play with the UN enabled, because to me that lead to a better game. Then I started shutting off the Spaceship, because it prompted the AI to get off their butts and build a military to fight with. The reason for this was because they had more gold from lack of research. And they weren't trying to steal Wonders, as once I'd gotten the Theory of Evolution they were left in the dust. So their bigger builders were free to build military.
Keep in mind that the larger AI nations were already embroiled in war, with me or others for quite a while. I'm not one to let good Cavalry go to waste. So with priorities already on war or defense, the knowledge that they can't get the Cultural Victory, the UN Victory, or launch, the AI has to determine whether getting into the Modern Age is worth it or not. That's when I start gifting technologies to the slower nations, hoping they will push forward and put up a good fight. But a lot of "less-aggressive" nations won't.
I think I may have gotten off-track a bit, but I may have answered your question. Removing the reasons for getting to the Modern Age will affect the AIs drive. At which time it will most likely resort to the base strategy of war.
vorlon_mi
Emperor
Sorry for the 
but here are a couple saves from my first test. I chose Japan, and hand-selected some opponents to get some warmongers. I used a continents map, so that the AI would have a chance to do their thing on the other land mass, before I met them.
Were they more aggressive? So far, a bit more aggressive. Rome was my neighbor to the north, and they declared on me as the BCs were turning into ADs. This map ended up being a bit lopsided for a test of what happens when the AI get to the modern age (or not). All the iron on my land mass was concentrated in the south, so the Romans had none. No Legionaries.
In the second save, Russia had declared on me, and overran my "outpost" city on their land mass. Overall, my military is pretty powerful compared to theirs, but my outpost was not well-defended. I postponed learning Navigation, and I'm not sure why, upon reflection. I wanted to learn Mil Trad as part of my war against the Persians, but I don't really need it. I rolled over them with lots of samurai. I persuaded the other two big powers on the other land mass to dogpile Russia for one tech (each), and I'm going to invade soon. Once I can upgrade the caravels to galleons, I can bring some of my samurai armies over to kick some Russian butt.
So far, I've seen some more AI aggression. I haven't studied the world map, to see if they had been fighting with each other before I could trade maps with them. We'll see if they tech themselves into Modern Times or not.
but here are a couple saves from my first test. I chose Japan, and hand-selected some opponents to get some warmongers. I used a continents map, so that the AI would have a chance to do their thing on the other land mass, before I met them.Were they more aggressive? So far, a bit more aggressive. Rome was my neighbor to the north, and they declared on me as the BCs were turning into ADs. This map ended up being a bit lopsided for a test of what happens when the AI get to the modern age (or not). All the iron on my land mass was concentrated in the south, so the Romans had none. No Legionaries.
In the second save, Russia had declared on me, and overran my "outpost" city on their land mass. Overall, my military is pretty powerful compared to theirs, but my outpost was not well-defended. I postponed learning Navigation, and I'm not sure why, upon reflection. I wanted to learn Mil Trad as part of my war against the Persians, but I don't really need it. I rolled over them with lots of samurai. I persuaded the other two big powers on the other land mass to dogpile Russia for one tech (each), and I'm going to invade soon. Once I can upgrade the caravels to galleons, I can bring some of my samurai armies over to kick some Russian butt.
So far, I've seen some more AI aggression. I haven't studied the world map, to see if they had been fighting with each other before I could trade maps with them. We'll see if they tech themselves into Modern Times or not.
