Does anybody else HATE the Diplomacy system?
- Thread starter Grapa
- Start date
charon2112
King
I would like to have that info back. Removing information in a game like this is never good.
CrimsonEdge
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2006
- Messages
- 256
Just going to put it out there that if you can't tell how a nation feels about you by their greeting, you may be thinking harder than you should.
Not THIS again! They're mad at you because you're getting in their way of victory! You cannot convince someone to let you win when they're programmed to win. In reality, there is only one elaborately constructed theory on why Diplomacy even works and that's because you provide an incentive for your "opponent" not to treat you as a future territory to annex. Give a reason as to why diplomatic relations is more profitable then invading. That is what the Diplomacy in this game provides... Research Agreement, Resource Trade, Military Alliances, etc...
Just assume what makes YOU mad will make THEM mad. Obviously building cities too close to them is one thing. Humans don't like it either.
Just assume what makes YOU mad will make THEM mad. Obviously building cities too close to them is one thing. Humans don't like it either.
I imagine that continual trade-offs will eventually "create" feelings that actually affect the decisions of AI. Yes, they want to win but some of their decisions are influenced by their perception of you. For instance, they don't really know anything about you except that you're close to them and would convenient territory to annex. However, if you've been trading with them for awhile, providing Research Agreements, been Allies, the positive perceptions just might be enough to make them consider invading you and pursue Science over Conquest or something.
Even if you don't believe in all that mumbo jumbo, there is always the creation of the probability to the AI that you will continue to serve as a "trustworthy" source of profitable trade and military aid.
Even if you don't believe in all that mumbo jumbo, there is always the creation of the probability to the AI that you will continue to serve as a "trustworthy" source of profitable trade and military aid.
Dearmad
Dead weight
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2001
- Messages
- 1,527
this is a totally vague post without any content other than its opinion. Explain HOW and WHY it is outdated, and what YOU would do to fix it.
Gath
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2008
- Messages
- 221
I don't think its fine, but I don't hate it. I just think its rather . . . "streamlined."
The City states operate on a simple scale. The other Ai's probably operate primarily off a power graph.
Honestly though, I can't think of any reason to keep AI civ's around now though. At least city states will give you stuff when they like you. I think we're going to pretty much see every game being a nonstop war until you've turned all your neighbors into puppet states. They can't give you tech, they can't become vassals, they can't share their maps, really, what good are they?
Can anyone think of a reason to not just steamroll every AI you meet as soon as you can?
Zhahz
PC Gamer
Having a small spreadsheet that tells you exactly where you stand is kinda dumb.
Seems to be plenty of cues in the game that give you an idea of where you stand and the AIs do act like players in that pretty much everything you do sets them off, kinda like everything they do makes me wanna genocide them (ala my 1st game).
The problem could be if you can't play thru in one sitting trying to remember where you stand - that I can see - but you shouldn't need a shopping list of +/1 numbers - that's not diplomacy.
I always asked myself, just who actually wants a AI that tries to win like a Human Player would ? If I want inscrutable opponents that try to backstab me without chance for me to see it coming, then i would play Multiplayer to begin with.
AI that tries to mimic a player is bound to fail anyway. I hate it how I have no idea how my deeds influence the AI, a problem that i don't have with human players.
AI that tries to mimic a player is bound to fail anyway. I hate it how I have no idea how my deeds influence the AI, a problem that i don't have with human players.
squadbroken
King
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2009
- Messages
- 716
I don't care about the loss of modifier info and I like the expanded options compared to Civ 4. So it's an improvement to me.
Inscrutable backstabbing opponents are a lot better than the pathetically predictable Civ 4 AI. Hell, Alpha Centauri handled diplomacy far better than Civ 4 did and it came out 6 years prior to it.
Inscrutable backstabbing opponents are a lot better than the pathetically predictable Civ 4 AI. Hell, Alpha Centauri handled diplomacy far better than Civ 4 did and it came out 6 years prior to it.
From my limited experience of a first [albeit long] day of gaming, I'm disappointed that the AIs are a little too stubborn. They pretty much never offer interesting trades (like I'm really going to give up my whole treasury and every single resource I have for his one luxury...) and their opinion of the player doesn't seem to improve upon receiving gifts. After I angered Ramses over buying land near his empire, no amount of unit gifts or one-way trades seemed to be enough to even get him to sign open borders again. Perhaps I'll find a better way to corral them into doing what I want but so far the only thing that's worked to get resources from them was to stomp on their faces until they begged for peace. All I'll say for now is that it's a little early for a fair assessment.
I knew they removed the mods, still it surprised and disapointed me how little info we get. You may say "it makes the game harder". Well, just feeling you don't know what is going around in the world doesn't only make it harder, but also less inmersive. Yesterday I missed having a feel on how the world was. Not only what the leaders thought of me, but also of eachothers. You just get no general world picture without this data, and that is not only difficulty, but also inmersion into the world of the game you are playing.
draxil
Chieftain
No. I prefer it. For a start it's not dominiated by religion and you can't just use the visible modifiers to cheat against the AI!
deathmatch ftw! ...wait, wasn't this civilization?
