Expanding just for luxuries?

[Shurdus]

Hey all,

This is a part of the game where I am really unsure what to do, so I would like some feedback from novices and experts alike.

I play on immortal, and I find myself on a peninsula. I have fur in abundance (4 in total), so I happily trade it around to the other 3 civs on my continent. At the moment I have 4 decent cities, so expanding is optional at this point.

Now I just discovered astronomy, so I met the remaining civs on another continent. I can settle another 3-fur-spot so I get to trade around more. The downside is that this makes future policies more expensive. I plan to win diplomatically since I am Greece.

Would you settle the fur spot? Why (not)?

 

[Plumfairy]

For additional furs? I wouldn't, unless one of the following was true:

1) The city site is an amazing site with tons of food & production (i.e. iron, horses, etc.)
2) You're playing on a Large or Huge map, so you have a bunch of additional trading partners.

And even if #1 or #2 is true, I would still think long & hard about settling there. In order to get that city up & running so that it doesn't slow down your science (and your social policies) you're going to have to buy a bunch of buildings and you should probably devote two sea trade routes to it: one food & one production.

So if you feel you can devote all those resources to it & #1 or #2 is true, go for it. If both #1 & #2 aren't true, then that city will slow down your research for a looooong time, force you to defend an additional spot, and slow down your social policy acquisition.

 

[Shurdus]

For additional furs? I wouldn't, unless one of the following was true:

1) The city site is an amazing site with tons of food & production (i.e. iron, horses, etc.)
2) You're playing on a Large or Huge map, so you have a bunch of additional trading partners.

And even if #1 or #2 is true, I would still think long & hard about settling there. In order to get that city up & running so that it doesn't slow down your science (and your social policies) you're going to have to buy a bunch of buildings and you should probably devote two sea trade routes to it: one food & one production.

So if you feel you can devote all those resources to it & #1 or #2 is true, go for it. If both #1 & #2 aren't true, then that city will slow down your research for a looooong time, force you to defend an additional spot, and slow down your social policy acquisition.

Well, there are additional trading partners on the other continent, so I could trade off all three furs I am receiving.

I understand your reasoning, and the slowdown in social policies and science is exactly what is holding me back.

 

[Plumfairy]

Well, there are additional trading partners on the other continent, so I could trade off all three furs I am receiving.

You can trade away all three right now, but it's almost guaranteed that at least one of the civs over there will become hostile to you in the next fifty-odd turns due to one reason or another. (Competing for city-states, or building a wonder that they want, or some other reason) And even if you manage to keep them all friendly, the arrival of ideologies will probably make one or more of them hostile.

And once they become hostile you'll be left with excess furs that you can't do anything with.

Having excess luxuries is no big deal if you pick them up in the course of your usual settling/conquering. But the whole point of settling that city is to trade away those luxuries, so that city will probably become more-or-less obsolete in 75 turns or so. (You'll probably be able to keep trading one or two of those furs, but two furs aren't worth all the resources you'll have to pour into that city to get it up to speed.)

 

[arand86]

Don't. Chances are, you're not the only nation with furs. And as stated above, relations get rocky, and lux prices plummet. Not to mention, it's possible that a future allied CS might have furs as well. 7 copies, unless on a very large map, just isn't worth it.

If you got say, 3 dyes or something you don't have, you MIGHT consider grabbing it.

 

[Gamewizard]

You could gift the furs to the other continent if you are worried about diplomacy breaking down later. This is a great way to build a quick friendship and get more RA partners, provided you already have the gold for them.

If you are low on gold then I would settle them, devote a food trade route to it, gift at least one of them to the civ most likely to offer friendship, and then sell the others. The gold from the tile itself is a nice boost as well.

 

[reddishrecue]

Well it depends on the social policy that you started out with and how long you are done with the track. If you started with liberty social policy and have the representation social policy and get that 33% discount on the culture cost increase for all cities then go for it because you can trade away and still make happiness buildings with a small population and high production start.
I've done this start before and before you know it, I ended up with a lot of unhappiness from conquering too many cities, but while I was still in peace I was able to stay happy by building the circus maximus national wonder.

 

[ravenmagus]

If the area's nothing but tundra, don't bother. If it's a good area for growth, though, I say go for it.

As long as the city can grow, it'll be worth it - population makes up the science difference, and working fur tiles will rake in a good amount of gold. Send a food route and a hammer route to get the starting infrastructure made (libary/uni, aqueduct/granary/etc, and probably walls) and the city can become a good source of income - and a base for bombers, if it comes down to war with the other continent.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

You could gift the furs to the other continent if you are worried about diplomacy breaking down later. This is a great way to build a quick friendship and get more RA partners, provided you already have the gold for them.

If you are low on gold then I would settle them, devote a food trade route to it, gift at least one of them to the civ most likely to offer friendship, and then sell the others. The gold from the tile itself is a nice boost as well.

Somtimes it feels like a cheat to gift because you can basicly become friends with everyone by doing so.

 

[ravenmagus]

Somtimes it feels like a cheat to gift because you can basicly become friends with everyone by doing so.

Seems like a legit strat - a luxury you are gifting is a 7 gpt you're not getting. The green modifier is good but it's not all that powerful; you can sometimes DoF everyone but that will only last one cycle usually since the AI doesn't like each other all that much (and DoF'ing an emey is a big negative).

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Having alot of friendships allow alot of resarch agrements having a RA with every civ can be extremly good and with enougth bribes few civs will hesitate to become friend with you.
Yes it do cost you gold but not much in late game terms then you maybe make 200+ gpt without golden age.