FfH2 0.16 Bug Thread

[Unser Giftzwerg]

I am pretty sure that Malakim units do not obtain their Desert terrain combat modifier of 40% when the tile is Hills/Desert. The movement bonus works in these tiles, but I can see no evidence the combat modifier is applied. Intended or bug?

 

[Sureshot]

not sure about that, i just tried attacking a malakim unit on a desert hill, and it got +40% as per its nomad promotion (with 0% general terrain modifier, since -25% from desert standard and +25% hill standard cancelled out)

however, it seems features (like floodplains and oasis) override and remove the negative terrain defense modifiers (though they add with positive terrain defense modifiers, the negative onces act as tho they dont exist).

so, because floodplains and oasis have 0% extra def standard, and deserts have -25%, the features override it to make 0%

ive tested it and gave oasis +10%, and desert oasis ends up +10%, completely ignoring the -25% of desert.

also, features cancel the double movement of the nomad trait on features like oasis and floodplains, though not hills.

id recommend giving floodplains -25% defense as well, and give the nomad promotion double movement on floodplains and oasis (let oasis remain at 0% since then its like a mini fort in the deserts, maybe even bump up to +10%).

 

[didolover]

All that Dido coming through the speakers at the same time probably caused the PC to try and end its own life

hey beef i didnt actually get your reference until my daughter explained it to me - my love is the former queen of carthage


but to stay on topic: i had my three stooges demolish a city's defenses and move on so the barbs could take it (and then i could take it without a war ) but the barbs kept walking past it to attack my own fortified city - is this a vanilla thing? or an ai looking out for itself thing?

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

not sure about that, i just tried attacking a malakim unit on a desert hill, and it got +40% as per its nomad promotion (with 0% general terrain modifier, since -25% from desert standard and +25% hill standard cancelled out)

however, it seems features (like floodplains and oasis) override and remove the negative terrain defense modifiers (though they add with positive terrain defense modifiers, the negative onces act as tho they dont exist).

so, because floodplains and oasis have 0% extra def standard, and deserts have -25%, the features override it to make 0%

ive tested it and gave oasis +10%, and desert oasis ends up +10%, completely ignoring the -25% of desert.

also, features cancel the double movement of the nomad trait on features like oasis and floodplains, though not hills.

id recommend giving floodplains -25% defense as well, and give the nomad promotion double movement on floodplains and oasis (let oasis remain at 0% since then its like a mini fort in the deserts, maybe even bump up to +10%).

I'll have to look at that again. Now that I think back on it, I might have gotten this mixed up with the 'hill bonus does not work on offense' issue. Or perhaps the Malakin get the Nomad effect from defending hilll/desert but not when attacking into hill/desert?

Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely have to boot up the game again and take anohter/closer look. (Sometimes the note scrawled on the Post-it is hard to read in the morning. )

 

[RavenXL]

I have recently seen stygian guards on the ocean (multiplayer), so I tried it in a quiet solo game. It's not THAT issue, since you need mining and fanatism, but it seems unusual. If you build stygian guards, they can't even walk on coastal tiles. But if you upgrade them from the drown (they can walk on coastal tiles, but not on ocean), they can walk on ocean. So you get powerfull ships without iron, gunpowder or optics, and they can even attack land without the need for transportation.

You have to notice that in my games land units have A LOT more experience than the average ship.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I'm fairly certain that the Malakim are not intended to be able to get an attack bonus for desert tiles. As the units defending the desert tiles are already getting a -25% penalty, that's probably not so bad.

 

[BeefontheBone]

hey beef i didnt actually get your reference until my daughter explained it to me - my love is the former queen of carthage

Aaaah. I'll let you off then

i had my three stooges demolish a city's defenses and move on so the barbs could take it (and then i could take it without a war ) but the barbs kept walking past it to attack my own fortified city - is this a vanilla thing? or an ai looking out for itself thing?

The first thing that comes to mind is that if the owner of the city in question had the Bar trait, he'll be at peace with the barbs and they'll ignore the city.

 

[CuteKills]

Minor issue - may or may not be intentional.

Teach a warrior Raise Skel

Drown him

You get a drown that can do raise skel, even though you can't train drown directly.

 

[Love]

Can you teach a varrior to raise sceleton, how?

 

[Kael]

Minor issue - may or may not be intentional.

Teach a warrior Raise Skel

Drown him

You get a drown that can do raise skel, even though you can't train drown directly.

Nothing wrong with that.

And to answer Gandi Rules question, Govannon (the Amurtie hero) can train other units to cast spells.

 

[Love]

yeah recogniced it, anyway (noob question) is it right that if doing GP (adventurer) in a small town with adventurers guild in cost 1000 GP points and thats in the capital.
Shortly, the GP points is thesame in evry city

Is it right or is it a BUG?

 

[Maniac]

Nothing wrong with that.

It rewards micromanagement. I'd prefer Civ to be a strategy game.

(Oops sorry - just noticed I'm posting in the bug thread)

 

[BeefontheBone]

yeah recogniced it, anyway (noob question) is it right that if doing GP (adventurer) in a small town with adventurers guild in cost 1000 GP points and thats in the capital.
Shortly, the GP points is thesame in evry city it right or is it a BUG?

That's definitely as intended - every time any of your cities generates a Great Person, the threshold for the next GP is raised across the empire (though I think there might be a cap on it). Otherwise you could get one great person per city incredibly easily, and loads of them would appear.

 

[Kael]

It rewards micromanagement. I'd prefer Civ to be a strategy game.

(Oops sorry - just noticed I'm posting in the bug thread)

But even more so the other way were we to remove promotions that the new unit doesn't allow. It would force players to manage their promotions by planning out what that unit will be in the future so they don't waste slots.

If a player wants to micromanage his drown to allow more skeleton slots more power to him. Remember we are talking about extra skeletons at a period in the game where you have arcane lore and an archmage compatible units. I dont see that having some drown units that can summon skeletons (especially since those drown cost 60 gold each) is a significant enough advantage to warrant a code change.

 

[Maniac]

I agree. That's why I would not remove promotions The Drown normally couldn't have, but instead give Govannon or whatever he's called the ability to teach all The Drown spells, instead of just promoted Warriors.

 

[Flex1]

I downloaded the newest version yesterday and finally got time to play it today. I found while playing that I can't see the image of the villages that you step on and they give out gifts.

Is that supposed to happen or is it a bug? Sorry if it was posted here before but I used the search button and nothing like this came up.

 

[khanjackal]

I've found plenty of unintended features/bugs.

Any that are gamebreaking or really bad, get reported and fixed by the community, but the little fun ones cause no harm.

Upgrading units to make strange and wacky features is part of the mod!

I mean, you can cast enchanted weapons on a Soldier of Kilmorph, upgrade him to Paramander, and cast spiritual hammer too. Those are theoretically incompatible, but who cares? Is it that unbalancing? Not really.

You can upgrade warriors to have all kinds of benefits, and then turn those into archers, or even combine them with horses with Flesh Golem.

Micromanagement will always benefit you. The downside is it takes a longer amount of time to play. Checks and balances.

 

[Maniac]

Those are theoretically incompatible, but who cares?

I do. The AI too. And you will care too would you play multiplayer and get defeated constantly because I'm a much better micromanager than you.

Is it that unbalancing?

Yes it is.

 

[katika]

I'm sorry, but I really don't see how a few extra +20% bonuses will make the difference between winning and losing. If the game is that close, the deciding factor will be luck. For the skeleton raising Drown, who cares? That's one civ under one religion when the Amurites can make any other unit do the same thing... Personally, I'd be a lot more worried about an army of combat 5 firebows (->Flurry/Marksmen) casting raise skeleton and fireball. Another fun "unbalanced" strategy is to create 3 Arcmagi with Fire III, Enchant III; Govanon and Hemah with Fire III, Enchant III, Twin Cast for 42 meteors (most with +50% str). You might need to sacrifice a few spirit guides to get Govanon and Hemah to level 13, but it works. Even with out Twin Cast or Enchant III, 30 meteors in one turn is still very deadly.

 

[Maniac]

I'm sorry, but I really don't see how a few extra +20% bonuses will make the difference between winning and losing.

If your opponent has +20% strength, it more or less halves your chance of winning the battle.

For the skeleton raising Drown, who cares? That's one civ under one religion when the Amurites can make any other unit do the same thing...

The point is not this single example of skeleton raising Drowns, which indeed is rather minor. The point is that Fall from Heaven is full of these tricks, and them all added together will mean a significant advantage for the person who knows to exploit them to the fullest. Why not simply let Amurite Marksman start with the same promotions as Firebows? Why not give Govannon the ability to let The Drown raise skeletons? Same effects, but without the micromanagement hassle.

fun "unbalanced" strategy is to create 3 Arcmagi with Fire III, Enchant III; Govanon and Hemah with Fire III, Enchant III, Twin Cast for 42 meteors (most with +50% str). You might need to sacrifice a few spirit guides to get Govanon and Hemah to level 13, but it works. Even with out Twin Cast or Enchant III, 30 meteors in one turn is still very deadly.

What you describe is a strategic choice which doesn't require micromanagement. This is unrelated to the point I'm trying to make.

Edit: You all seem to be misreading my posts. I do not want to remove fun strategies. I want to make them possible without having to go through all the micromanagement first.