[R&F] First Look: Georgia

[Gabhar]

Yes...some Georgians and Armenians are lighter than the Muslim states around them; but they're still darker than Europeans. Kinda makes sense since they live in the Middle East! Modern Georgians are likely lighter than their ancestors too, as a result of Russian and Soviet domination. I think those who have said that Tamar was painted lighter than she was irl are likely accurate.

That seems like pretty spurious and speculative reasoning. European skin tones change among neighbouring regions as well, and lots of people in Muslim states are light skinned. Do you have evidence for the suggestion there was a mass introduction of Russian genetics to lighten the population's skintone?

 

[sonicmyst]

So is the Protectorate War at Theology for everyone now?

Looks like only Georgia has it earlier.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

This is a strong Civ. Their only downside is that one of their abilities are strongly religion dependent and they gain no benefits towards founding a religion. Holy Sites and Apadama will be a priority in every game.

Once she gets the religion rolling, however, she's really strong. I love the double GA bonuses and the bonus envoys. The faith from renaissance walls isn't a game breaker, but it's a nice touch in combination with monarchy and the limes policy.



The faith doesn't really matter. It's a nice bonus, but what really matters is the extra envoy every time she sends one. This is really broken. (ie: it effectively doubles your envoys if you send them one at the time.) It allows Tamar to get huge benefits from city states and retain them. All she needs to do is get a majority religion and spread it to them. Have a warmongering AI declare war on one of your City State allies? Declare a protectorate War to save it. Failing that, well, hey, you at least got 10 turns worth of double faith out of it, use that to recruit more apostles/missionaries and gain another ally as you spread it elsewhere.

This is by far the best City State-related bonus in the game.

Whoever said on page one or two, that Theocracy is a must have, is kinda right. Faith buying some units might be useful.

As for protectorate wars, I know that I personally use it semi-frequently. If I have a mercantile/commercial citystate nearby, I always get very angry when the AI tries to take it out. Toronto, Kumasi, etc. apply as well. I used to block with units, but now I let them take it and liberate instead, since you get no warmonger penalty. Only silly Ghandi still gets mad, but who cares what he thinks.

 

[bite]

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[Trengilly]

This is by far the best City State-related bonus in the game.

I agree. Once you found a religion (tricky I know) its then usually pretty easy to convert city states. Double envoys is crazy good. And on the harder difficulty levels it isn't hard to find AI's to attack them so you can declare protectorate wars.

Does it actually state anywhere that the Khevsureti is a Swordsman replacement? I don't see that. If it is then its a pretty great unit. +4 base strength and +7 on hills. At 47 on hills it can stand up to Knights. And presumably it won't need Iron to build.

Plus she's the most attractive female leader yet! I'm excited.

 

[Inlex]

My Article welcoming Queen Tamar to Civilization VI and the story behind the meme (feel free to share it with any of your friends that like Civ)

Great article. Well written and very interesting, since I had missed the details of where the meme had come from.

 

[K4wa]

Suffix -eti in the word 'Khevsureti' means 'the land of' something like what -stan is in Persian.
Thus, they use the name of the region to refer to the warriors.
Right way to call them would have been something like "Khevsur warriors' or 'Khevsur' (Khevsurs in plural)

I also have no idea on what the unique improvement is based on in real life. Svan towers would have been so much better !

How can i contact Firaxis to tell them to change the name of the unique unit?

 

[Helel Bright]

You guys all need to take a look at this map. It's very informative:

You need to take a look at these pictures of actual Georgian people. They are very informative:

Spoiler :

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I agree. Once you found a religion (tricky I know) its then usually pretty easy to convert city states. Double envoys is crazy good. And on the harder difficulty levels it isn't hard to find AI's to attack them so you can declare protectorate wars.

Does it actually state anywhere that the Khevsureti is a Swordsman replacement? I don't see that. If it is then its a pretty great unit. +4 base strength and +7 on hills. At 47 on hills it can stand up to Knights. And presumably it won't need Iron to build.

Plus she's the most attractive female leader yet! I'm excited.

The Khevsureti should be Medieval instead of Classical, I think. I've asked Ed Beach to verify.

 

[Onii-chan]

The unique building doesn't look that great, the other stuff is decent though. Still the temporary faith bonus there seems pretty mild compared to Australia's similar temporary production boost mechanic

The envoy thing could be really strong though in theory

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

They changed Seondeok's appearance to look more Korean. I'm sure they can do the same for Tamar.

 

[nzcamel]

Yes, and very misleading, as there are plenty of lighter skinned cultures mixed in and around that area (note that neither Armenians, Iranians nor Palestinians are that darkly-complexioned). It's overly simplistic to say George is in the middle east, therefore it is the land of the "brown people." There's a lot of nuance, and comparing both contemporaneous depictions and current Georgians she stands out quite a bit.

I agree. Yet no one said this about Cyrus. You pick and choose who you think should be light and dark.
It's not like Middle Eastern Christians are all light skinned, and Middle Eastern Muslims are all darker skinned. You seem to be generalising in a weird way!

That's seems like pretty spurious and speculative reasoning. European skin tones change among neighbouring regions as well, and lots of people in Muslim states are light skinned. Do you have evidence for the suggestion there was a mass introduction of Russian genetics to lighten the population's skintone?

This is my Armenian Great Grandfather who fled the Ottoman Empire before the worst of the genocide kicked in; with his kiwi wife. My Gran (still alive) is standing. Yes, he isn't Georgian, but culturally and ethnically they're pretty similar. The photo being in brown and white isn't the best for picking up just how dark he was compared to his wife.
The Armenians I have meet in New Zealand would all be easily mistaken by untrained eyes for more well known middle eastern races.
Many Georgians will be similar; all the more so centuries ago when Europe's influence in the region was minimal.

Spoiler :

 

[mehmetakifsahin]

HEPİNİZİN AMINA KOYUM LAN AQ GAVURLARI GÜRCÜ YARRAĞI YEMİŞ PEZEVENKLER


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[clapyourhands]

It wouldn't surprise me if most of the models in the First Looks are based off of pre-existing ones to save time and production, namely Seondeok from Gitarja and now Tamar from Tomyris.

Regarding the walls I have a feeling that they intentionally scaled back the strength of Georgia's uniques because some aspect or another of the civ was already strong. We don't know how significant the Golden Age + Normal Age mechanic is, but the lack of early game faith with the unique coming in at the renaissance era seems to be a conscious decision. Firaxis's own write-up notes how the walls were contemporary with Alexander the Great (classical era).

 

[NegativeZero]

Tamar's 100% 10 turn faith bonus on protectorate war is super strong even without a religion!

I'd say so if it wasn't stated in her unique abilities in the first look video.

They moved a number of Casus Belli to earlier starts (Good riddance).

In a preliminary R&F civic tree thread on reddit (Here), a number of Casus Belli where moved to earlier ears in the civic tree. One was moved to Early Empire and two others toward Defensive Tactics.

It is highly possible that protectorate wars will be available much earlier in which Georgia will reap massive faith income.

It also appears that there will be more ways to spend faith/gold in R&F compared to vanilla as shown in First Look: Georgia.
One golden age dedication shows just how easy faith can be used to massively boost an economy without needing a religion:

Golden Age Dedications
Monumentality - +2 movement for all builders. May purchase civilian units with Faith. Builders and Settlers are 30% cheaper to purchase with gold and faith. +1 Era score whenever a new specialty district is constructed.

It really depends on what will be available in R&F as to how well Georgia will be, but the chances that they will be strong are good.

 

[ferretbacon]

She and Barbarossa will be besties!

Will they though? He gets his panties in a twist if you become a suzerain of a CS, which is likely to happen if the CS shares your religion.

On that note, I feel like Papal Primacy is extra good for Georgia.

 

[nzcamel]

You need to take a look at these pictures of actual Georgian people. They are very informative:

Spoiler :

In 2017.

And I could find other pictures with darker Georgians.

 

[sonicmyst]

Offtopic question: Did they just change the appearance of the ancient walls?

 

[Josephias]

My first thoughts gameplay wise is that she will be a slightly better version of what Spain should have been.

This is the “tall” Iberia vs spain being the “wide” Iberia

 

[Duckfromstatefarm]

She and Barbarossa will be besties!

Just like Tomyris and Cyrus being besties on surprise war so will Tamar and Barbrossa will be besties when it comes to city-states.