JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Very much so. It makes Fixed Borders invulnerable to the culture game, which is a very bad idea. Resistance, certainly, but invulnerability? No thanks.
+1
JosEPh
Very much so. It makes Fixed Borders invulnerable to the culture game, which is a very bad idea. Resistance, certainly, but invulnerability? No thanks.
+1
JosEPh
No, I want to get rid of that "1 unit preventing revolution" part of the code, and changing it with something else that makes Fixed Borders valuable anyway, without being so extreme, hence my suggestion to require double the pressure necessary to flip a city if fixed borders civics are being used.Maybe I'm not getting it, but why? (If you do not use FB (not On)) would doubling the revolt index make City flipping work if a unit is stationed in the city?
You will never have a situation where the city is "empty of units". A city should flip even if there Are multiple units in it.
JosEPh
45°38'N-13°47'E;13451186 said:No, I want to get rid of that "1 unit preventing revolution" part of the code, and changing it with something else that makes Fixed Borders valuable anyway, without being so extreme, hence my suggestion to require double the pressure necessary to flip a city if fixed borders civics are being used.
45°38'N-13°47'E;13451236 said:It can be set in some revolution config file but there are many types of revolt, not just cultural. Religious ones, for example. IIRC, no cultural revolt can happen if owner of the city has more than 45% of culture in that city, which looks fair enough to me.
Edit: right now revolt chances can't go over 10% but with my proposed change they can go again up to 100%. I had revolts in a city full of units, although I don't remember how many of them.
By the way, is it worth it to "aid rebel factions" to increase the rebellious sentiment? Wouldn't it be more efficient to spread your culture?
It depends on many factors, units in the city, culture, religions, etc, but it shouldn't flip until there's at least 45% of the other civ cultureWhat is the cultural threshold to flip the city to you?
45°38'N-13°47'E;13452404 said:It depends on many factors, units in the city, culture, religions, etc, but it shouldn't flip until there's at least 45% of the other civ culture
So actually even with revolutions you have to spread your culture in order to flip the city with the supporting of rebels?
Actually with Revolutions, most of the time you'll have to do what you said. But sometimes a city without much of your culture may rebel to you in a big rebellion just because the other cities rebelling have a lot of your culture.
E.g. Civ A (you) has a lot of culture in 3 cities of Civ B (AI). Civ B is suffering with revolts in 4 cities near Civ A (3 of them are the 3 described above). Then a revolution happens which Civ B can't avoid. The revolution happens in these 4 cities. As the majority of the cities would like to rebel to you, the 4th city (which can have, for example, 20% of your culture, or even 0% I guess) will rebel to you as well. So you can make a city rebel to you even if it doesn't have much of your culture. But that's the only case I know that this can happen.
Also in revolutions there are only 3 ways of a city flipping:
- The host civ let it go (a popup shows for you to agree or not); This is the one that has a problem of OOS we are discussing about.
- The host civ wants to become a part of you (common situation with friendly small nearby vassals), then another popup will show (I don't remember if this one has issues).
- A revolution occurs in an undefended city.
So actually the answer is no. In order to make a city flip to you (with revolutions ON) you must be sure the revolution in the city will spawn your troops (in other words they are revolting to join you) and kill the last defender of the city in the turn before it happens (which isn't hard to discover, a message is displayed to you and the cities go on riot). As a city may revolt to you with or without much of your culture, as explained above, then the answer is no. But normally it's true. It's the way to go, because if you don't have any culture in revolting cities of another player, then the revolution won't be to join you, but rather another player or a new civ.
Ah, thank you very much! And if I cause more revolts in a city (due to aid rebel factions), it is more likely to flip? The mechanic is really in depth, I didn't know about that
For now, as I explained in this thread, one successful mission of this is enough to put a city with not a single drop of revolution to go to Danger state. Putting culture with spies or IDW can't compete with Aid Rebel Faction.
So it's the best way to ensure revolution. The problem is: If the culture % in the city isn't favorable to you, hardly the revolution will be supporting you. Instead it'll probably revolt to the owner of the highest culture % (if it's not the owner of course) in the city, or spawn a new civ or barbs if the majority of culture is of the owner himself.
@45º
It seems fair to me, but my opinion is rather irrelevant to this because I can't play with Revolutions Off.
Please drop the discussion regarding making Revolutions a default forced option. It will never happen. The people who have brought the topic up are spreading FUD and have an agenda. There never has been any discussion on the team to make Revolutions a default option, so the discussion here is at best, pointless waste of words, and at worst, a tactic to drive a wedge between members of the community here.
Revolutions will always be optional.