Flotillas and the Wars of Public Opinion

[MobBoss]

They are still civilians under international law:

The fact that they may be considered by some to be combatants and belligerants doesn't mean they are no longer civilians, since the opposite of "civilian" is a person who belongs to the "armed forces".

So you are "wrong", and "once again you utterly failed" to read the link.

Going for the small shred of semantics now, Form? Like I said earlier, once they pick up a knife or baseball bat and attack a soldier, they no longer enjoy their protected status. They are then combatants or belligerants, just like your own link said. That was my point.

Your error is typical of someone ignorant of the military and the law of war. The way to look at it isnt civilian vs soldier....its protected person vs non-protected person. One is a legitimate target of lethal force...one isnt. Again, I direct you to the words combatant or belligerant.

I teach classes on this subject Form. If you want my slides to explain it, I can forward them to you.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Going for the small shred of semantics now, Form?

It's not "semantics". It is a legal definition which is internationally accepted.

 

[warpus]

Mel Gibson disagrees....

Btw, exactly what biblical reason would there be for being a close ally to Israel? Just curious. Can you point to something chapter and verse perhaps?

How about one of the verses where God says that the Hebrews are his chosen people? Isn't that why so many fundie American christians feel a link to Israel?

Nobody said the chosen people are better humans or superior in any way. They just happen to be God's chosen for whatever reason.

What a rasist

 

[onedreamer]

I don't understand how anybody can not side with Israel on this.

Happens to brainwashed people.
Open up a History Book, page 1. Flip through all pages till the last (turkish ship incident) and you'll see how this people has managed to paint themselves as victims of worldwide racism and aggression, when it's actually the other way around. If in 3.000+ years of History they could never befriend any neighbor, there must be a reason behind it and I refuse to believe that the problem is to be found in the number of different neighbors through the millennia. This is a simple reasoning that does not require being victims of propaganda reading bullhorsehockys in articles written by people that most probably have never been in the middle east and that do not know personally any jewish, hence they don't know how seclusive, fanatic and aggressive their moral values are.

 

[warpus]

I don't understand how anybody can not side with Israel on this.

I mostly want to see that blockade gone - and for the residents of Gaza to receive some "luxury" items - so that their kids can play with some toys and eat some chocolate..

Screw Hamas and screw the Israeli government. They are both a bunch of female dogs. Anyone attempting to deliver humanitarian aid to people behind an immoral blockade like that gets my support.

 

[luiz]

Happens to brainwashed people.
Open up a History Book, page 1. Flip through all pages till the last (turkish ship incident) and you'll see how this people has managed to paint themselves as victims of worldwide racism and aggression, when it's actually the other way around. If in 3.000+ years of History they could never befriend any neighbor, there must be a reason behind it and I refuse to believe that the problem is to be found in the number of different neighbors through the millennia. This is a simple reasoning that does not require being victims of propaganda reading bullhorsehockys in articles written by people that most probably have never been in the middle east and that do not know personally any jewish, hence they don't know how seclusive, fanatic and aggressive their moral values are.

See folks, this fellow right here, a typical euro-leftie, is saying that the Jews have not been historically the victims of racism and discrimination, but were actually the racist aggressors themselves, for the last 3,000 years.

Let us all remember this post next time someone say there is no rampant antisemitism among the european Left.

 

[illram]

Who cares what some crazy person thinks. Shhh the Adults are speaking.

 

[luiz]

Who cares what some crazy person thinks. Shhh the Adults are speaking.

It's not a crazy person, but rather millions. His opinion is quite common in Europe, probably bordering on the mainstream of leftist thought.

 

[onedreamer]

antisemitism isn't rampant, it exists from 3,000 years, according to YOUR own line of thought, which is why it is extremely self contradictory.

 

[luiz]

antisemitism isn't rampant, it exists from 3,000 years, according to YOUR own line of thought.

Something can be rampant and old, unless my English is way worse than I think it is.

 

[onedreamer]

Something can be rampant and old, unless my English is way worse than I think it is.

yeah it is. In fact, I meant it's stable.
And you also confuse the terms opinion and History.

 

[Ayn Rand]

double post

 

[ParadigmShifter]

It's not a crazy person, but rather millions. His opinion is quite common in Europe, probably bordering on the mainstream of leftist thought.

This is just wrong.

 

[Ayn Rand]

Happens to brainwashed people.
Open up a History Book, page 1. Flip through all pages till the last (turkish ship incident) and you'll see how this people has managed to paint themselves as victims of worldwide racism and aggression, when it's actually the other way around. If in 3.000+ years of History they could never befriend any neighbor, there must be a reason behind it and I refuse to believe that the problem is to be found in the number of different neighbors through the millennia. This is a simple reasoning that does not require being victims of propaganda reading bullhorsehockys in articles written by people that most probably have never been in the middle east and that do not know personally any jewish, hence they don't know how seclusive, fanatic and aggressive their moral values are.

Unbelievable. What country hasn't repeatedly fought its neghbours in the last 3000 years? And if Jews are so bad then how do you explain all the countries that trade with Israel and have settled Jewish populations?

Racism is the mark of the collectivist. When individualism prevails, people don't need to belong to one group and oppress another group to gain an advantage.

 

[luiz]

yeah it is. In fact, I meant it's stable.
And you also confuse the terms opinion and History.

ram·pant (rmpnt)
adj.
1. Extending unchecked; unrestrained: a rampant growth of weeds in the neglected yard.
2. Occurring without restraint and frequently, widely, or menacingly; rife: a rampant epidemic; rampant corruption in city government.
3.
a. Rearing on the hind legs.
b. Heraldry Rearing on the left hind leg with the forelegs elevated, the right above the left, and usually with the head in profile.
4. Architecture Springing from a support or an abutment that is higher at one side than at the other: a rampant arch.

See definition number 2.

 

[onedreamer]

Unbelievable. What country hasn't repeatedly fought its neghbours in the last 3000 years?

Phoenicia, Switzerland, Canada... need I go on ? But most importantly, I didn't say they repeatedly fought neighbors, rather I said they could never befriend any of their neighbors in all their History. And no, I can't find another example... can you ?

And if Jews are so bad then how do you explain all the countries that trade with Israel and have settled Jewish populations?

Excuse me ? Countries don't trade and don't settle.

Racism is the mark of the collectivist. When individualism prevails, people don't need to belong to one group and oppress another group to gain an advantage.

Did you read this on the Bible or did you quote Nethanyau ?

 

[Ayn Rand]

Phoenicia, Switzerland, Canada... need I go on ? But most importantly, I didn't say they repeatedly fought neighbors, rather I said they could never befriend any of their neighbors in all their History. And no, I can't find another example... can you ?

Completely untrue - English and American Jews get on fine with their civilised Anglo-Saxon cousins. As for neighbours, Egypt seems to be getting on pretty well with Israel and is helping them police the Gaza border.

Excuse me ? Countries don't trade and don't settle.

By "settled" I meant that the populations of Jews are integrated well into the culture of many countries [many civilised countries, that is] who gain from these intelligent and hard-working members of our community. By trade, I meant the exchange of goods with Israel - like F-16s and Pentium processors.

Did you read this on the Bible or did you quote Nethanyau ?

Ayn Rand. Generally speaking, hard-left thinkers see the World in groups or collectives, and try to promote conflict between groups to further the interests of their own chosen group at the expense of another.

 

[onedreamer]

ram·pant (rmpnt)
adj.
1. Extending unchecked; unrestrained: a rampant growth of weeds in the neglected yard.
2. Occurring without restraint and frequently, widely, or menacingly; rife: a rampant epidemic; rampant corruption in city government.
3.
a. Rearing on the hind legs.
b. Heraldry Rearing on the left hind leg with the forelegs elevated, the right above the left, and usually with the head in profile.
4. Architecture Springing from a support or an abutment that is higher at one side than at the other: a rampant arch.

See definition number 2.

Well usually I don't criticize people for misunderstanding a term when I use it in its secondary definition in a case that can make a huge difference with its first definition.

Besides, Luiz from Bananistan, I don't think the relationship of Israel with its neighbors in the course of History is a matter of opinion, but pretending it is, in that case I would be entitled to have an opinion as respectable as is yours, unless you prove me that my opinion is wrong, in which case the relationship of Israel with its neighbors would not be a matter of opinion anymore but History again.
I also doubt that the population living in Europe is a matter of opinion, so when you consider millions when talking of hundreds of millions, you should be speaking of a minority, not of a large number of people as you imply. Moreover, since I definitely live in Europe, I can reassure you on the fact that the number of antisemites is quite low, and I must know better than you since I'm in the club by your royal decree, must I not ? Just like the people who claim Genghis Khan and his army were a cruel band of raiders are anti-mongolians or whatever.
The apologizers like you are responsible for the homicides Israel is perpetrating from years, every time someone says "Hey... this was not good, Israel", they step up yelling "antisemite !!" in a most ridiculous yet hilarious way.
Btw, visit Europe sometime, you'll be relieved to see that there are less antisemites than you would expect, spying from the far Bananistan.

 

[stuge]

This is just wrong.

Shh, it's a nice and tidy, overly generalised worldview. Don't break it.

 

[onedreamer]

Completely untrue - English and American Jews get on fine with their civilised Anglo-Saxon cousins.

American Jews aren't israelians.

As for neighbours, Egypt seems to be getting on pretty well with Israel and is helping them police the Gaza border.

yeah, after having their army wiped in a night, I'd bet
It's called vassalage in Civ4.

Ayn Rand. Generally speaking, hard-left thinkers see the World in groups or collectives, and try to promote conflict between groups to further the interests of their own chosen group at the expense of another.

says who ? In that case I'm no leftist, since I dislike collectives, which produce sheep-like minded people...