G-Minor 118

Ozbenno

Fly Fly Away
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Hall of Fame Staff
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Apr 5, 2006
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Sydney, Australia
While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

[size=+1](*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
[/size]​

Settings:
  • Victory Condition: Cultural (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
  • Difficulty: Prince
  • Starting Era: Ancient
  • Map Size: Large
  • Map Type: Oasis
  • Speed: Normal
  • Civ: Egypt (Hatshepsut)
  • Opponents: Any
  • Version: 1.74.004, 2.13.004 or 3.19.003
  • Date: 10th to 25th April 2011
Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
 
Man, how can I use those sweet chariots if I always start at the southern region? :sad:
I've heard about the possibility to begin in the north when I came accross the oasis mapscript description. Nonetheless, this wiped out my hopes. :cry:

I think it would be better to begin in the northern regions as one has easy access of horses and marble, including the fact ressources are crowded, meaning easier three über cities. Screw the lack of land, we need 3 great cities and in the southern region, it sucks most of the time (not all the time though).

Can someone help to find this advanced options tab so I can change to team 2 (or any other means) if it is still following hall of fame rules?

Onegai~~:bowdown:
 
@Tachywaxon
Of course, if you are prepared to undertake a long walk before founding your first city, you may start in the north and make use of those plentiful horses...:scan:

Edit: I found an earlier Gauntlet where we were discussing Oasis maps - and the idea of starting north came up - see here
 
Of course, if you are prepared to undertake a long walk before founding your first city, you may start in the north and make use of those plentiful horses...:scan:
Unfortunately, it isn't worth breaking my neck over this when domination/conquest isn't the goal. Hmm... :confused:

Edit: I found an earlier Gauntlet where we were discussing Oasis maps - and the idea of starting north came up - see here

It seems nobody has found the solution yet. Awww, it's so hard to find a good spot in the south for at least two cities. Oasis mapscript is so unbalanced as some enough lucky can get lots of pigs, deers, gems, cows, etc. and the others nothing in capital BFC. I don't understand why it is an accepted mapscript. :confused:
 
Unfortunately, it isn't worth breaking my neck over this when domination/conquest isn't the goal. Hmm... :confused:

It seems nobody has found the solution yet. Awww, it's so hard to find a good spot in the south for at least two cities. Oasis mapscript is so unbalanced as some enough lucky can get lots of pigs, deers, gems, cows, etc. and the others nothing in capital BFC. I don't understand why it is an accepted mapscript. :confused:
Here's a few of my thoughts on this game, for what they are worth.
A nice fast cultural win will probably be one where you have 9 cities, and spread 2 or 3 religions to all cities. Nine cities allow you to build 9 temples for each religion, and therefore 3 'cathedrals' or similar. One cathedral of each religion in each of your 3 high-culture cities.

Finding land for 9 cities is a problem (though not insurmountable) with the south's poor ration of food resources. You can find locations for 3 good cities - especially since the AI on Prince are a bit sluggish to get going - and then fit another 6 in poorer land. This could be OK, since those other 6 cities are only for building temples.
However, taking the land (and possibly a city or two) from your neighbours would mean you get a much better pick of the good land for your 9 city empire. You don't really find copper in the south, and certainly not horses. Iron can be found in the desert region, but the desert certainly isn't ideal for a capital city. Maybe a second city, and rushing someone with swords, is a possibility.

Then there is the 'trek north'. Crazy? A lot depends on whether you can waste something like 15 turns, which is what it will take on a large map, in a standard speed game! On the other hand, this is Prince level. So - Crazy, or Cunning?
All I can say is I have played one of each so far, but I don't think my finish times will trouble many who take part :).
 
Glad to see my first effort rates a last place. 1854AD.:blush:

In this game, I tried axe/swords on my nearest neighbor. Unfortunately, protective archers really bite. Ended war after taking just 1 city. I ended up making Shanghai a legendary city, but it was not necessary. There are plenty of flood plains cities avaliable, also lots of green cottageable land that you can peacefully expand into.

My slow speed is due mainly to getting NO religion spread. The Large map seems to make religion spread very slow... once I found Confu, though, this spreads spontaneously and quickly to all my cities, thus preventing me catching more religions. I had to detour and found Islam just to get a second religion. So my slow finish is not a suprise.

I'm having similar problem getting religions in my on-going game as well. There's still 3 left I could found... but I fear it will be too slow to make an impression.

I'm considering founding Hindu/Judaism myself, if I get around to doing this again.

Note to self: if I want to take cities from a neighbor, I need to add max opponents. But if I want to found religions and expand organically, then I need to use min opponents. Thus far I've only been working with min opponents, and expanding to get decent land is not a problem at all. Getting religions... that's where I'm doing something wrong. :mad:
 
@kcd_swede
Last place!? That's a very 'glass half empty' way of looking at it.
Actually, if you need a bit of hope, I am only beating you by a few turns - and it is very early days :D

On the subject of religion spread, I found it best to see if you can found Confucianism and Taoism yourself (not too hard on this level) and then the spread is under your control of course. Funnily, in my latest attempt I spent so long defeating my nearest neighbour that I missed out on Confucianism - but I took Babylon which was the birthplace of Judaism so ended up with two religions again once I had Taoism.

I haven't thought about adding opponents. It's an idea, but possibly not that necessary. It is the good land that you want really, although a capital city is useful (especially one that holds a religion) and by adding more civs I would feel that I am just forcing myself to attack more cities in order to claim the same amount of land.

On the subject of war-mongering, I am no-one to give opinions! In fact, when I found the link to the earlier gauntlet that I linked to in my post above, I realised :lol: that I have still not learned the lessons that babybluepants was trying to teach me back then: don't build axes and war chariots - just build war chariots!
 
My second game I founded Taoism and Confu... and got spread of Judaism and Bhudism, around 1000AD. Then in the final culture push I got infected with Hindu and Christianity, but wasn't time to develop. Total peaceful game.

But as per usual when I retry games in gauntlets... my second game was even slower than the first. The harder I try, the worser I get. :lol:

I need to reread Jesusin's strategy article again before I do this again. I guess I should stop spamming wonders, too.:blush:
 
My second game I founded Taoism and Confu... and got spread of Judaism and Bhudism, around 1000AD. Then in the final culture push I got infected with Hindu and Christianity, but wasn't time to develop. Total peaceful game.
In a strange similarity, I also got more religions than I had time to deal with in my latest game. Got two from a conquered neighbour, founded 3 more (tao, christian, islam). Rather chaotic in terms of my Gt Person gene-pool which was polluted to hell :D:rolleyes:. That accounts for the 2 Gt Prophets who got me the 2 late religions.
I also found, as you did, that there isn't time to spread all of these religions to every city and build a temple in each city for each rel, before the point when I have Liberalism and need to start aiming for the finish line. There comes a point with each city when you have to weigh up the benefit of building another cathedral or switching over to building culture.

I need to reread Jesusin's strategy article again before I do this again. I guess I should stop spamming wonders, too.:blush:
Yes! A very good read which I did remember to look at again before starting this gauntlet.
How much I managed to incorporate in my games is very much open to doubt :crazyeye:.
I think the secret is to achieve a perfectly focussed, minimalist game. Zen-like calm! However, you may need to (calmly) take out one of the other civs before you settle down.
No wasted effort. Build your cities, spread your religions, build your temples. In the culture cities, build a couple of essential wonders, the cathedrals and then you are into your final approach run.
I've never achieved this kind of perfection :D. Maybe never will.
 
Hi guys!

I just finish my game in the year of 1555. In my capital (built on a plains hill), I had corn, stone and fur. Later I received marble as well in my 5th city, and I had gold, copper and later on ivory, so I had all the required resources. As a disadvantage, I needed to put my cities to distant places. But still, the northern part was quite close to my starting place in the edge of the desert, having enough flood plains.

I could finish all the wonders what I wanted, I had many. I could have had a bit more towns: I had 9, 9 and 5. But I am still satisfied with my finish date.
 
Me too I'm currently playing a map where my starting location is near the desert: capitol with riverside plain corn, two pigs and cow. My second city (very near the capitol)has ivory, irrigated plain corn, stone and copper. For some reason, I fear for myself I'm nowhere to your feat...1555 AD... sincerely sweet ;). When did you get Liberalism?

Damn, people are so good here.

Double damn, why in the world did I waste my scientist in math bulbing for the CS Slingshot...
 
I just finish my game in the year of 1555.
...
I could have had a bit more towns: I had 9, 9 and 5. But I am still satisfied with my finish date.
At last! An expert arrives and blows us all away!
I was getting bored sitting at the top of the list with a date in the 1800s. Really ;) It is a bit embarrassing.
I had been working on getting something in the 1700s, but hadn't succeeded yet.
Now we'll have to see who else comes along to set impressive dates like yours, kovacsflo.
(However, I had noticed that you currently hold the record for a cultural win on Normal speed Large maps with a 1470AD finish - on Deity.)

PS. kovacsflo. Was your game entirely peaceful, or did you attack anybody? If you did, then was it one early war, or what?
 
At last! An expert arrives and blows us all away!

(However, I had noticed that you currently hold the record for a cultural win on Normal speed Large maps with a 1470AD finish - on Deity.)

PS. kovacsflo. Was your game entirely peaceful, or did you attack anybody? If you did, then was it one early war, or what?

In about 2000 BC, I attacked Vicky just to get a worker. Later on, I went to war with an other one AI because of a faux pass. But none of these was a real war.

About my Deity finish: it wasn't on oasis which is a nightmare map. And in the other hand, AI needs to be strong enough to help you by spreading religion and trading. In prince AI is too weak. I didn't have any foreign missionaries in my cities - but I add that I found 5 religions, 1 spreaded spontanously and the remaining one was far away from my cities.
 
it wasn't on oasis which is a nightmare map

By nightmare map did you mean...unbalanced? hard to fetch some resources? extremely rares resources (silk, sometimes gold and stone) Or something else?


In 1060 AD. Anyway I could do a CS slingshot, finishing Oracle in 875 BC (player log can be useful to find an info).

Thanks, this rekindled my hopes ;). I got it at 900 AD and according to Jesusin's article, the earlier liberalism is online the most effective we can reach early CV dates. But...I got so many useless great peoples (A great scientist burnt for math and another for Education, Double Great Prophets, Double Great Engineers and not a single Great Artist yet around 1000 AD :undecide:). At least I used one engineer to rush the Shwedagon Paya as gold was extremely rare on my map (two sources).

Regarding the Oracle, what was the free tech then? Philosophy?
 
By nightmare map did you mean...unbalanced? hard to fetch some resources? extremely rares resources (silk, sometimes gold and stone) Or something else?




Thanks, this rekindled my hopes ;). I got it at 900 AD and according to Jesusin's article, the earlier liberalism is online the most effective we can reach early CV dates. But...I got so many useless great peoples (A great scientist burnt for math and another for Education, Double Great Prophets, Double Great Engineers and not a single Great Artist yet around 1000 AD :undecide:). At least I used one engineer to rush the Shwedagon Paya as gold was extremely rare on my map (two sources).

Regarding the Oracle, what was the free tech then? Philosophy?

900 AD Libaralism is pretty good, however I'm sure that the best strategy is not finding Liberalism, nor building as many cathedrals/wonders/cottages/GA-s as possible, but to find the exact rate of these victory components. For example me researched some wonder-giving technologies at first, like calendar.

Anyway it seems that you have the same problem as I had with the great people. One of the few things which is better in CIV5 is that great people generating is not any more luck dependent.

What I don't like in oasis that if you want to find the required resources, you need to settle down far away. Since AI is to weak to trade with, you need to have cities both in the north and south. It result more time to spread your religions, more money for cities. Also, I only had 1 non-legendary GA farm due to the poor food resources.
 
... I got it at 900 AD and according to Jesusin's article, the earlier liberalism is online the most effective we can reach early CV dates.
That is a very nice date to be reaching Liberalism. I was later - around 1100 I think.
Here is one of the annoyances of playing at Prince level - the AI is much less help as a tech trade partner than on the higher levels. I found I was forced to break off from the direct route to Lib in order to research useful techs that I was unable to trade from other civs.
As kovacsflo says, the secret of a great cultural victory (not that I'm anyone to speak! I've never produced any great times) is a balance of a number of different factors - all adding up to the high culture in the 3 legendary cities. Liberalism is important, as that is the point when you can switch to Free Speech - which is the biggest boost you ever get towards the culture victory.

But...I got so many useless great peoples (A great scientist burnt for math and another for Education, Double Great Prophets, Double Great Engineers and not a single Great Artist yet around 1000 AD :undecide:).
There is a problem with 'polluting' the pool of Gt Person Points in the 3 high-culture cities by building wonders there. Often your strategy in a cultural game involves the Oracle. Often you have the opportunity to build other wonders (eg Gt Library, Pyramids, Hanging Gardens..) that appear to help your overall game. However, they tend to generate the wrong kind of Gt People: Gt Prophets, Gt Scientists, Gt Engineers etc. Furthermore, you are very likely to want to build these in your capital, or another of the cities that you have earmarked to become a legendary city. That's the dilemma! Can you do without these 'polluting' wonders, and ensure a steady stream of Gt Artists, or do you build them and risk getting the wrong kinds of Gt People?

I find that you can attempt to keep the stream pure in one or two cities, but not everywhere.

Of course, if your 3 legendary cities have a very good set of food tiles, then you can run a sufficient number of Artist specialists to make the Gt Person Pool effectively purer (say, just 7% chance of anything unwanted like Gt Prophets).
 
Civ V vs Civ IV Great People:

Anyway it seems that you have the same problem as I had with the great people. One of the few things which is better in CIV5 is that great people generating is not any more luck dependent.

I agree that non-random generation of Great People in Civ V is a clear improvement over random generation in Civ IV. I honestly can't think of anything else that is a clear improvement in Civ V over Civ IV.

Please excuse my off-topic comment.

To bring it more on topic:

Great Wonder Spam "Strategy":

I strongly suggest the Great Wonder Spam "Strategy". At Prince level, you should be able to build almost all the Great Wonders, except a few of the early ones. To help in this, make sure to select opponents that do not have the Industrious trait. Aim to build The Sistine Chapel as early as possible, spam all State Religion buildings (Temple, Monastery, State Religion "Cathedral") in the three Cultural cities. Each such State Religion building provides an extra 5 Base Culture per turn in BtS.

Don't forget to complete Great Wonders (including National Wonders) and cultural buildings as early as possible, since their base culture per turn doubles after 1000 years of game time. Try to complete as many Great Wonders and cultural buildings by 1 AD as reasonably possible.

War Chariot Rush:

At Prince level, an early rush can be very effective, since the AI starts out with only Warrior defenders. With Hatshepsut, you should be War Chariot rushing 1-2 closest Civs early on (before they find and connect Copper) to gain cheap REX. Choose opponents that do not start with Mining, since they usually complete Bronze Working much later and can't start building Gold/Gems/Silver mines very early either. Start with researching Animal Husbandry to locate Horse ASAP. You might try stealing a Worker(s) ASAP from one opponent that isn't too close to you and thus may not target you after Peace. Let your Capital grow at little and build a Settler to claim Horse (with the Creative trait, you can settle with Horse in Ring 2 which will be in your Culture in 5t) or claim Hammer heavy sites with enough Food to grow and support the Hammer plots.

Other Tips:

Workers play a key part in the rush, building roads to opponents, improving Resource and other plots, and especially chopping Forests. Try to get a start with greater than
average number of Forests which can be hard on Oasis; you might try playing a different Team # than the default of #1, if the map script always puts Team #1 in a Forest-less area of the map.

After Animal Husbandry, research Mining -> Bronze Working to adopt Slavery and chop Forests for quick Hammer boosts. After Bronze Working, the research path can diverge, but I like Pottery (Granary/Cottages) -> Writing (Open Borders) -> Mathematics (+50% Hammers for Forest Chops). Alphabet after Writing may be a better option to fill in the Worker Technologies and more.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Try to get a start with greater than
average number of Forests which can be hard on Oasis; you might try playing a different Team # than the default of #1, if the map script always puts Team #1 in a Forest-less area of the map.

:drool: Do you know something about swapping the team number?! Is really there no means to swap team number?...so why people even bother mentioning it if nobody has ever accomplished it? :confused: The team number, is this hardcoded or moddable?
 
:drool: Do you know something about swapping the team number?! Is really there no means to swap team number?...so why people even bother mentioning it if nobody has ever accomplished it? :confused: The team number, is this hardcoded or moddable?
@Tachywaxon.
Even if it can be done (and works as you intend) the HoF rules do not allow it.
See the bottom of the rules page here . No modification of the team numbers is permitted. :(
 
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