G-Minor XCVI

Peets

Emperor
Hall of Fame Staff
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While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

Settings:
  • Expansion: Brave New World
  • Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
  • Difficulty: Settler
  • Map Size: Standard
  • Map Type: Small Continents
  • Speed: Standard
  • Leader: Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar II)
  • Opponents: Any
  • Version: SV8
  • Date: 1st to 16th March 2015
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
 
Took a break from replaying the last Minor 800 times, did this in 147. The map was like a stretched out pinwheel, arms up and down and full of hills and jungle, so movement was slow. If I'm sure I can do 15-20 turns better, I know the experts can kill this one.
 
Good early scouting and a friendly map layout for optimal warpaths will matter the most here I think.

Getting a city on another continent in a peace deal and buying units there could work too, but I'm not sure how likely the AIs are to expand on Settler during the first 80 turns.
 
Just tried approach you described, vadalaz - and that worked pretty well. Won by turn 135 mindlessly clicking next turn. Declared war to civ in oher continent (brazil) and then grab their city as a peace deal and so on. Good thing also is that those small continents looks like always have a passage - so astro is most likely not needed. AI starts to expand around turn 50 - although most of the settlers are captured by the barbs some of them reached the desired destination. Also thinking that raging barbs are not needed here.
 
I think I'll try a standard Galleass rush first actually. Babylon/Settler means very fast Compass, maybe somewhere in the t50-55 range? Will need 2 Galleasses and 1 trireme per army, so I guess the goal is to get 1600 gold by the time you hit Compass for two instant armies, and preferrably have a peace deal city somewhere far from the capital to spawn one of the armies there. This should be fun. I wonder if it's faster than just killing everything with the archer UU though... you start later but you move faster. Hmmm.
 
I think I'll try a standard Galleass rush first actually. Babylon/Settler means very fast Compass, maybe somewhere in the t50-55 range? Will need 2 Galleasses and 1 trireme per army, so I guess the goal is to get 1600 gold by the time you hit Compass for two instant armies, and preferrably have a peace deal city somewhere far from the capital to spawn one of the armies there. This should be fun. I wonder if it's faster than just killing everything with the archer UU though... you start later but you move faster. Hmmm.

In Settler "movement rate is everything" as Cro says. But slower units that can be rush bought closer to target are also pretty good.:D Yes, fun I think. And quick games, I like that too.
 
I think I'll try a standard Galleass rush first actually. Babylon/Settler means very fast Compass, maybe somewhere in the t50-55 range? Will need 2 Galleasses and 1 trireme per army, so I guess the goal is to get 1600 gold by the time you hit Compass for two instant armies, and preferrably have a peace deal city somewhere far from the capital to spawn one of the armies there. This should be fun. I wonder if it's faster than just killing everything with the archer UU though... you start later but you move faster. Hmmm.

The Galleass rush will work great if there are no inland capitals, but these are continents not islands, so pesky inland capitals may slow down that plan. AIs sometimes will build cities/caps 1 space from the sea for reasons known only to the programmers... I suppose if you took all sea-bias AI civs you'd be OK, but better make sure to not remove bias in the initial settings.
 
The Galleass rush will work great if there are no inland capitals, but these are continents not islands, so pesky inland capitals may slow down that plan. AIs sometimes will build cities/caps 1 space from the sea for reasons known only to the programmers... I suppose if you took all sea-bias AI civs you'd be OK, but better make sure to not remove bias in the initial settings.

That was exactly the case in my game - Brazil had inland capital. I think trirems should be enough here.

I would probably follow this path: Pottery->Sailing->Trireme->Writing->Academy->Everything else.
 
Well I won my galleass test game on t91, which is really slow:

- first try so I took a pretty average starting location. No granary resources, no salt, no fish, so food wasn't very good
- got 2 ruins in total: map and culture. Need a settler ruin for faster science and more production
- only got Compass on turn 61 or 62 with my 2 small cities
- opened Exploration really late because my culture sucked
- map was really, really annoying. 3 key points were ice-locked, also the continents' shapes made all the journeys from cap to cap really long. Thus it took 30 turns from getting Compass to clear the map instead of 20

T91 is very beatable with just archer spam. A good Galleass game should finish around t75 (Compass on t55 and win in 20 turns) which is much more competitive with an Archery-Optics game. I'll probably keep trying with Galleasses because I think it's the more fun approach. Medium sea level will likely form better continents but it's risky.

A small tip: for a better chance of getting a nice city in a peace deal, include Enrico and Kamehameha in your opponents list. Enrico can get a quick GMoV and swim him safely to a CS, Kamehameha likes to swim his settlers so the barbs aren't as likely to kill them.
 
I need to finish the India GOTM first, then this. This feel similar to that Dido Archi GOTM we played a while ago. I also need small continents for VVV so will definitely play this.

By the way, I submitted the science Deity game that I could not submit due to the HOF database crash and hols. That should nicely increase the scores of the winners.
 
These maps are indeed really annoying. I've re-spun a few and keep finding no coastal paths, nullifying galleai (plural of galleas?) and necessitating Astro. Movement is a pain, need to work the peace deal strategy.
 
These maps are indeed really annoying. I've re-spun a few and keep finding no coastal paths, nullifying galleai (plural of galleas?) and necessitating Astro. Movement is a pain, need to work the peace deal strategy.
Did you choos Low Sea Level in the initial settings? That helps a lot. Sometimes the map gods are just unkind though...
 
By the way, I submitted the science Deity game that I could not submit due to the HOF database crash and hols. That should nicely increase the scores of the winners.

Was that the recent one with Greece? What was your final result? Deity is always tough. You mainly just raised Ironfighter's score as he turned a multiple Salt capital (something crazy like 5-7) into a masterful T2teens win. He's a genius! Anyway, he is getting the lion's share of that HoF score as he blew everyone away. Doing that one after the fact is a low priority for me as I already have Greek and continent games for the VVV.

Feel free to finish and turn in your Aztec Immortal Culture try from last month as well. Only 3 entries so I currently am out of the HoFmedals in that one [emoji6]. (Said with tongue firmly planted in cheek, so don't take seriously!)
 
Was that the recent one with Greece? What was your final result? Deity is always tough. You mainly just raised Ironfighter's score as he turned a multiple Salt capital (something crazy like 5-7) into a masterful T2teens win. He's a genius! Anyway, he is getting the lion's share of that HoF score as he blew everyone away. Doing that one after the fact is a low priority for me as I already have Greek and continent games for the VVV.

Feel free to finish and turn in your Aztec Immortal Culture try from last month as well. Only 3 entries so I currently am out of the HoFmedals in that one [emoji6]. (Said with tongue firmly planted in cheek, so don't take seriously!)

Ah, well Ironfighter deserves it, that finish time was amazing. A HOF entry that will truly stand the test of time. Mine was 269. I wish Ironfighter would play more, but he hyper specializes on Standard and Deity, and mostly science, and does very succinct write ups, but yes he is a genius, in Deity science at Acken's level or even slightly better, but Acken (like Vadalaz, Cro, and you) posts often and with details and Acken even does LPs, so he helps the rest of us get better, which is fantastic.

The Aztec SS, I would, but impossible, with the 40 cities my game was slowing down and crashing like crazy, like 10 minutes per turn, so I gave up and did not keep the saves. Sorry.
 
Ah, well Ironfighter deserves it, that finish time was amazing. A HOF entry that will truly stand the test of time. Mine was 269. I wish Ironfighter would play more, but he hyper specializes on Standard and Deity, and mostly science, and does very succinct write ups, but yes he is a genius, in Deity science at Acken's level or even slightly better, but Acken (like Vadalaz, Cro, and you) posts often and with details and Acken even does LPs, so he helps the rest of us get better, which is fantastic.

The Aztec SS, I would, but impossible, with the 40 cities my game was slowing down and crashing like crazy, like 10 minutes per turn, so I gave up and did not keep the saves. Sorry.
Sorry to see thoae big time/SS games crash your computer. You should seriously give that one a try again if you have the time because I'm pretty sure you could best both me and Vadalaz if you get the nice combo of a faith wonder and being near the snowfields. It was one of the easier Immortal games I've ever played as long as I was careful not to anger the AIs.

Getting back on topic, Vadalaz turned in a nice game already as always. I think he needs to add words after his comment "That was really slow" [on a friendly map]. People shouldn't feel bad about a sub-100 finish on this one, as a friendly map is needed to hit those times he is theorizing. Small continents seems to be one of the more random map types yo me, but maybe it is just me. I have had large island type maps in the past, and 1 pretty huge continent among others sometimes in the past.
 
Sorry to see thoae big time/SS games crash your computer. You should seriously give that one a try again if you have the time because I'm pretty sure you could best both me and Vadalaz if you get the nice combo of a faith wonder and being near the snowfields. It was one of the easier Immortal games I've ever played as long as I was careful not to anger the AIs.

Getting back on topic, Vadalaz turned in a nice game already as always. I think he needs to add words after his comment "That was really slow" [on a friendly map]. People shouldn't feel bad about a sub-100 finish on this one, as a friendly map is needed to hit those times he is theorizing. Small continents seems to be one of the more random map types yo me, but maybe it is just me. I have had large island type maps in the past, and 1 pretty huge continent among others sometimes in the past.

Oh I deleted a comment that if I try again I would blow the existing finish times out of the water, but thought it was too cheeky:). Agree the snow fields make the culture victory a cakewalk with SS.

Ok kicking off this one. I'll do the major later. And sub 100 is difficult I agree unless you get lucky.
 
Getting back on topic, Vadalaz turned in a nice game already as always. I think he needs to add words after his comment "That was really slow" [on a friendly map]. People shouldn't feel bad about a sub-100 finish on this one, as a friendly map is needed to hit those times he is theorizing. Small continents seems to be one of the more random map types yo me, but maybe it is just me. I have had large island type maps in the past, and 1 pretty huge continent among others sometimes in the past.
Yes, I suppose I worded it somewhat carelessly. What you're saying is correct, a fast finish will require a friendly map, some luck, a good plan and its careful execution. This is true for every gauntlet though. :)

As for the Aztec game, I think a ~t105 time is realistic there but sub-100 sounds very hard to achieve, could be possible with Uluru and another NW maybe... It depends on how much culture the AIs can generate though. That's something I don't like about competing on Deity and to a certain extent Immortal - the AIs aren't "irrelevant" like on lower difficulties, which in my opinion makes the game random and unpredictable much more so than ruins, CSs or barbs do. Just as an example, Hanging Gardens can go on t45 and t90 on the same map in different playthroughs. At least HOF allows for several attempts which sort of evens things out for everyone, because in theory everyone can roll a map where things go their way.
 
Yes, I suppose I worded it somewhat carelessly. What you're saying is correct, a fast finish will require a friendly map, some luck, a good plan and its careful execution. This is true for every gauntlet though. :)

As for the Aztec game, I think a ~t105 time is realistic there but sub-100 sounds very hard to achieve, could be possible with Uluru and another NW maybe... It depends on how much culture the AIs can generate though. That's something I don't like about competing on Deity and to a certain extent Immortal - the AIs aren't "irrelevant" like on lower difficulties, which in my opinion makes the game random and unpredictable much more so than ruins, CSs or barbs do. Just as an example, Hanging Gardens can go on t45 and t90 on the same map in different playthroughs. At least HOF allows for several attempts which sort of evens things out for everyone, because in theory everyone can roll a map where things go their way.

Actually, I take it back. Sub100 is easy. Just did a test game, and won t104, with really big mistakes and a map that was not that friendly. I am talking really big mistakes. Start was good, 1 salt 1 wheat, 1 calendar lux, but got the tech order wrong, and believe it or not forgot to build NC before planting my third city (I went liberty), slowed my science pretty bad. Also did not get the triremes out exploring until like t60, opened honor by missclicking (instead of closing liberty!!!!) which made my Compass even later. I suppose it is possible to roll a map without a connecting route, but mine had a one tile connection in 2 different places, and multiple routes to explore before finding the right one, plus last civ was very far away. Anyway. Gonna try a second time.

As for Deity, my reasons for disliking it are different. I don't mind the randomness of the AIs, and if you play a lot of Deity (I used to play it exclusively before I started with the gauntlets, I guess we all go through that phase, when you think that Deity is the highest difficulty, not realizing that the infinite difficulty is to get a record time at ANY level), so as I was saying if you play a lot of deity you get a feel for when the wonders go. In fact HG and Petra are the only ones that move a lot, and ToA is the only one that is a pretty safe bet with some chopping and opening archery, the rest of ancient wonders forget it. It is true that the AIs cheat at Deity and they can see what you are building, so they will let you build to last turn for maximum damage (I have tested this) and that's why the wonders go at different times. It is also quite obvious they know what each other is building. But once you take all that into account, it is just one more feature to overcome.

What bothers me about Deity is that the AIs are so powerful (have so many advantages I mean) that it really reduces the amount of strategies you can try down to 1 or 2 that have been discovered and tried and tested a long time ago, if you are going for a record turn time. So it is just execution, not creativity, or just tactical creativity, not strategical (again for record time, if you just want to win then it can be done in multiple ways, but that does not motivate me, been there, done that). The other issue, and this is specific for me, is how long the games are, and how heavy they are for my computer. Once I get past t200, everything slows down to a crawl, and domination games just take forever.
 
Actually, I take it back. Sub100 is easy. Just did a test game, and won t104, with really big mistakes and a map that was not that friendly. I am talking really big mistakes. Start was good, 1 salt 1 wheat, 1 calendar lux, but got the tech order wrong, and believe it or not forgot to build NC before planting my third city (I went liberty), slowed my science pretty bad. Also did not get the triremes out exploring until like t60, opened honor by missclicking (instead of closing liberty!!!!) which made my Compass even later. I suppose it is possible to roll a map without a connecting route, but mine had a one tile connection in 2 different places, and multiple routes to explore before finding the right one, plus last civ was very far away. Anyway. Gonna try a second time.
Yep, ~t100 with Galleasses should be doable consistently unless something goes wrong, like no shallow water connection, 90 is an average result and 80 is very good I'd say. The winning time should be under 80. Or maybe someone could do it faster with archers.

I didn't build NC in my game at all, I think it's overkill with Babylon on Settler... I took a GS from Liberty finisher to bulb Theology and Great Library'd Compass. GL was a slow build in an expo while the capital was kicking out triremes + Great Lighthouse. The problem with my setup was that my city sizes were only 7 and 2 so the science was slow. A start with some nice granary resources and a settler ruin = t50-55 Compass I think. And a second expo would free up some production (maybe slow build Great Lighthouse there) in the capital for the Oracle...
 
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