Gaddafi is history! Tripoli is free!

[Marla_Singer]

I think it's premature to say that Libya will be a NATO puppet. A revolution is a chaotic process and nobody really knows what's going to happen next.

Especially that NATO has absolutely no intention to send a single military guy in Libya. I hardly see on which ground they will have a say on anything.

After all, France ruined itself in helping the US to get independent, and once that was done, the US immediately continued trading with English folks as if nothing happened. What France could do? Nothing.

But I don't blame you guys because the French kingdom's bankrupcy is probably what triggered the revolution... and I just love to live in a Republic.

 

[aronnax]

The whole thing is a proxy war isn't it? I'm basing my accusation of Chinese involvement on their initial decision to send a frigate to the area, which presumably served as a platform for inserting special forces assets and for conducting communications and electronic warfare.

So just rescuing 12000 Chinese foreign workers never crossed your mind?
I bet Austria and Greece were aiding Gaddafi when they sent planes to 'rescue' their citizens.

There is of course no firm evidence of involvement by any outside party [either Chinese or SAS etc], except that it seems quite clear that the usual game is being played, between the usual suspects, in the usual way

That's exactly what conspiratorial theorists say.
Obviously we don't have any proof that the Queen is the leader of the Lizard People, but looks at them! With the suspicious lizardness, in their usual way.

 

[Racsoviale]

Silly Aronnax, it is the unusual lizard people you have to keep a look out for.

 

[IglooDame]

The whole thing is a proxy war isn't it? I'm basing my accusation of Chinese involvement on their initial decision to send a frigate to the area, which presumably served as a platform for inserting special forces assets and for conducting communications and electronic warfare.

You seriously think that a Chinese frigate is not going to get considerable surveillance assigned to it by NATO? They may be able to drop off a very small number of special forces swimmers under cover of darkness (though Chinese cannot blend in as Libyans or African mercenaries like European or American teams can, and it'd be interesting to see how they get a submersible vehicle off a frigate), but any electronic warfare is pretty much going to be conducted against NATO airstrikes and NATO certainly has the capability to detect and identify anyone doing that.

 

[Dachs]

That's exactly what conspiratorial theorists say.
Obviously we don't have any proof that the Queen is the leader of the Lizard People, but looks at them! With the suspicious lizardness, in their usual way.

Link to video.

!!!!!

 

[Takhisis]

No one gives a crap of Gaddhafi's irrational speech. People who kept fighting for Gaddhafi were only scared for their own life.

And if they were scared for their life is because they participated to the 42-year-old machine of fear which kept Gaddhafi in power.

You forget that there are people for whom warfare is a way of life. They aren't soldiers, they're warriors. They fight because it's their life.

If Libyans are so happy Gaddhafi is gone, it's because they feel relieved from a fear they endured during their whole life.

Again, it's not just the relief, it's the feeling of payback.

 

[aukrest]

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi was sighted at the Gaddafi compound by foreign reporters, so the NTC lied about Saif's capture. Gaddafi's eldest son Mohammed was reported to have escaped rebel custody as well. Saadi Gaddafi was confirmed as captured but not until earlier this morning. It's anyone's guess to where Muammar Gaddafi himself is though. Two of the Gaddafi sons we know nothing of their whereabouts, one other has been rumored killed and Saif al-Arab Gaddafi was supposedly killed in NATO airstrikes.

 

[innonimatu]

Was Qaddafi the bastard son of the amazing Houdini? It might explain the family's magical escapes, from capture and from death... this is the latest one:

Saif al-Islam, the son of Col. Muammar al-Qaddafi, appeared at a Libyan hotel early Tuesday morning despite widely circulated reports of his capture during the rebels' move into Tripoli a day earlier.

Saif appeared at the Rixos Hotel in Tripoli and told Fox News that the rebels had been lured into a trap and that pro-Qaddafi forces will crush them. He also said his father remains in Tripoli and he is alive and well.

He also said his forces were winning the fight with the rebels.

The International Criminal Court had previously confirmed the capture of Seif al-Islam, who along with his father faces charges of crimes against humanity.

Meanwhile, the Libyan leader was nowhere to be found Monday as his 42-year rule teetered on the brink of collapse.

Months of NATO airstrikes have left his Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli largely demolished. Most of his security forces fled or surrendered when rebel forces rolled into the capital Sunday night and took control of most of the city. Three of his sons were under arrest.

A mood of joy mixed with trepidation settled over the capital, with the rebels still fighting pockets of fierce resistance from regime loyalists firing mortars and anti-aircraft guns. Rebel spokesman Mohammed Abdel-Rahman, who was in Tripoli, said the "danger is still there" as long as Qaddafi remains on the run.

Again showing that both journalists and the ICC have been a joke, mouthpieces for propaganda.

 

[aukrest]

Well the NTC had 'confirmed' that Saif had been captured so it seems as though their statements can't be trusted at least for the time being. This also explains why last night the NTC did not want to handle Saif over to the ICC (because they didn't even have him).

 

[innonimatu]

Well the NTC had 'confirmed' that Saif had been captured so it seems as though their statements can't be trusted at least for the time being. This also explains why last night the NTC did not want to handle Saif over to the ICC (because they didn't even have him).

The whole civil war has offered us continuous examples of these attempts at psychological warfare. It's been quite interesting, actually. I say attempts because after repeating them over and over, they're bound to loose effectiveness and only serve to ridicule the mouthpieces.
They probably were quite effective at the start, so why not try them now just for the hell of it? It's not as if the damage credibility of western journalists, or that mock international court, matter for the actual war at this point.

 

[Bootstoots]

I wonder if this was some sort of rumor that started as the rebels were rapidly taking parts of Tripoli. It doesn't make much sense for the rebels to deliberately deceive the media on something like this, given that the response will obviously just be for Saif to show up on TV. For all we know the NTC may have been in the dark on this one too but confirmed it based on what people in Tripoli were claiming, or found out too late that it was false and didn't want to lose face to the media after they'd reported the capture.

I wish the media would stop reporting every rumor they hear claiming that Gaddafi and sons have fled/died/been captured. It seems that they're so hopeful that this will be true, and so eager to be the first to break the story, that they're willing to report anything of the sort that some rebel tells them. They really should wait to report things like this until video is taken of the Gaddafis in another country/dead/guarded by rebels.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

I wish the media would stop reporting every rumor they hear claiming that Gaddafi and sons have fled/died/been captured. It seems that they're so hopeful that this will be true, and so eager to be the first to break the story, that they're willing to report anything of the sort that some rebel tells them. They really should wait to report things like this until video is taken of the Gaddafis in another country/dead/guarded by rebels.

But... but... ratings!

 

[Tee Kay]

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi was sighted at the Gaddafi compound by foreign reporters, so the NTC lied about Saif's capture.

Could've also been a double.

 

[Verbose]

Could've also been a double.

Or, perhaps more probabaly, if he was picked up, he simply managed to talk and/or bribe himself out of the situation.

 

[aronnax]

Or, perhaps more probabaly, if he was picked up, he simply managed to talk and/or bribe himself out of the situation.

Maybe it was one of those situations where he was captured and locked in a hotel and than a bomb went off killing all the guards but himself!
Like Hollywood!

 

[Dachs]

They'd have had to have been pretty abominably stupid to have gotten caught at this stage of the game anyway. It wasn't too hard to believe that they were, but I'm not surprised that it turns out they weren't.

 

[Rulle_Kebab]

There are some things I find strange....

Reports of CIA and MI5 agents in hotels. Acting as journalists and threatening the real journos not to provide the real story.
The amount of nice merchandise the rebels have(Hats, ballons, tshirts and so on with the libyan kingdom flag, a flag mind you, that was the flag of a puppet kingdom).
Seif El Islam roaming the streets unaprehended apparently.
The amount of misinformation thrown out.

These are maybe just minor things but I find it worrying when NATO is in the picture. The international community is involved so to speak(no Russia and China in the offense against Gaddhafi).
The idea of us in NATO just helping out is fading fast. Not that I ever had that idea. But it should be fading for those who believed that idea.
The following days should be exciting to follow. And the coming years in libyan politics.

I think that libya will enter the democratic world. Jump on the same fraudulent wagon as most of the "free world". People will vote in great numbers. And the western backed puppet will ofcourse win the elections. There will be no real democratically elected head of an oil state atleast not when we have the influence to make it so.

I hope not but I think this is what will happen. Looking at Iraq and Afghanistan.
And looking back in history, on the top of my mind, I cant find any western backed invasions, revolts or revolutions that were really good for the peoples.
Maybe some of you can refresh my mind

 

[Marla_Singer]

There are some things I find strange....

[...]
The amount of nice merchandise the rebels have(Hats, ballons, tshirts and so on with the libyan kingdom flag, a flag mind you, that was the flag of a puppet kingdom).

I guess the West was also the evil ally of Mubarak and did nothing to help Egyptians to get rid of him. Whatever the West do, you complain.

If we help Arab people fighting their dictators, it's wrong, if we don't help Arab people fighting their dictators, it's wrong.

Instead of constantly complaining about the evil West, you should better see how China teached you a lesson during the last 20 years.

Best regards

 

[Rulle_Kebab]

I guess the West was also the evil ally of Mubarak and did nothing to help Egyptians to get rid of him. Whatever the West do, you complain.

If we help Arab people fighting their dictators, it's wrong, if we don't help Arab people fighting their dictators, it's wrong.

Instead of constantly complaining about the evil West, you should better see how China teached you a lesson during the last 20 years.

Best regards

It is not the help getting rid of the tyrants I worry about.
its the help afterwards...
But in the case of Egypt. yeah the west did NOTHING to help topple Mubarak.
The west supplied him with his machinery, money and everything else to keep the egyptians down. All in the name of a war on terror. And it is the same for Gaddhafi, Bashar Al Assad, King Saud, Nouri el Maliki, Hamid Karzai and nearly every other leader in the middle east. Look at Bahrain?
ALL of them supported by us western nations untill they fall then we dont support them anymore and support the winners so we can get some easy influence in order to exploit them further.

China, is I agree, a very powerful player in Africa & Middle east. Why do you think the "international community" now are busy getting some influence? We are loosing a whole continent and the whole oil region to China!
But it is the same imperialism China is practicing as we in the west are.

 

[r16]

Well , SaifulIslam probably understands that the next time he steps down without his father's approval he will not make it to ICC .

just to subscribe you know