Game Features/Functions

[The Capo]

GAME FEATURES/FUNCTIONS​

This thread is to discuss new game features and functions within the Diplomacy II mod. I will post new features and functions I plan on adding to the game here, and they may be discussed. When I say features and functions I mean all those that do not pertain to units (i.e. a feature of a unit) or buildings (i.e. the function of a building). An example of the type of function pertaining to a unit that will not be discussed in this thread (should a Praetorian be able to build a road) an example of one that will (which promotions should I allow spies to have). I hope that makes sense.

 

[The Capo]

LIST OF CURRENT FEATURES/FUNCTIONS​

All general functions (i.e. those not specifically tied to a wonder, building, unit, or trait) will be listed here to make it easier on a visitor to this forum to see what else has been added to the mod. At this stage of development, Diplomacy II has the following features and game-functions:

• "Hunting" - Many new animals have been added to this mod, when you have researched Animal Husbandry whenever you kill certain animals a corresponding resource will appear on that tile.
• Capture Slaves - Slave units can be captured by combat victories and capturing/razing cities. These slaves can be used to rush production of a building or wonder (+20 hammers), can build tile improvements, or can be impressed into military service.
• Police State - civs with the Police State civic no longer suffer unhappiness from defying the United Nations.
• Serfdom - Farms under Serfdom now produce one extra gold and one extra hammer.
• The Olympic Games - Starting in 1896, the Olympic Games begin. They can not be built, or otherwise controlled by any player (including the AI). They give a bonus in culture, happiness, and gold to the city they are held in. The city will be selected randomly every four turns.

Many other features are planned for this mod and will be posted as I add them.

 

[The Capo]

I know I still have to update this thread, but I wanted to get a few of the ideas I had from the last thread here so we can get them discussed.

Here's the first one, it was made in the old Diplomacy thread:

Something I just remembered that I wanted to run by everybody. What do you all think of allowing the Marine unit to be upgraded into various specialized units? I was thinking of adding five new unit types that the Marine could be upgraded into for a cost (they'd be national units and be unbuildable otherwise). The units I had in mind, with a general description would be:

• Medic: Pretty obvious what this one would do, heal units in a stack. Can't attack, or defend (i.e. it is destroyed if attacked).
• Counter Insurgency: Would be placed in a city to put a stop to rebellion/disorder after conquest. Can only defend.
• Special Ops: Could conduct a select amount of espionage missions, would also be invisible and could enter enemy territory. Can see invisible units. I was also considering making it have a hidden nationality.
• "Alpine": I could use a better name for this. A unit that would have special defense and attack bonuses on certain terrains, would also be able to cross mountain ranges.
• Combat Engineer: Can scrub nuclear fallout, build roads (only roads), and forts. Can't attack, or has a substantial loss of strength. I was also thinking of giving it an "agent orange" action that would take out jungles, but that might be unnecessary by the time it is around.

Each would require a specific technology and in some cases may require a specific building. I think it would be a pretty cool/dynamic way of allowing a civ to create a specialized military. I'm not entirely sure exactly how it would be implemented at this point, but I figured it might be a cool and unique feature of this mod. Any feedback on this idea would be appreciated, if I were to do it it would obviously not be in the next playtest and would have to be discussed.

And then another idea for a modern unit that I had was a drone unit. I was planning on giving it an extended line of sight and ability to conduct recon flight missions, along with an ability to bomb units or tile improvements. It would be a relatively cheap unit that sucks, or I could make it an awesome unit that is a national unit. What do you think?

 

[Edgecrusher]

If your interested, one "line" of units I play with are as follows.

New "Class" of units called Espionage Units, originally defined in the Super Spy Mod, The Spy is obviously one.
A common denominator for all Espionage Units is the "starting with Commando"

A) Fanatic (Espionage Unit)
National Unit (limit 6) (although thought about removing or increasing limit)
This Unit is a copy of the Vanilla Spy. Invisible, can conduct the Vanilla spy missions (Sabotage, Steal Plans, etc..)
Starts with Commando
Can Enter Enemy Territory
Cannot Attack, very low relative strength.

This Unit was designed to fill the roll of the Religious/Nationalist Fanatic.
My only concern is with the AI, and how the Spy AI in BTS effects those Vanilla espionage missions.

B) Special Ops (Espionage Unit)
National Unit (limit 6)
Upgrades from Marine/Paratrooper/Explorer (not the Navy Seal though)
28 Strength
Starts with Commando, and Amphibious Promotion
Can Paradrop at a range of 8.
Can see Fanatic Unit (and therefore can attack them/defend against them)

This Unit was designed to be the defense vs the Fanatic.
I dont believe a Special Ops unit can conduct a full blown War against a Military Target. I always thought their roll was more along the lines of Covert Ops. (i.e. espionage/counter-terrorism)
*NOTE* that if one has 6 of them built, the game lets you build Marines/Paratroopers/Explorers.

C) Diplomat (Espionage Unit)
Upgrade from Explorer
National Unit (limit 6)
Upgrade from Explorer
Can Enter Enemy Territory
Cannot Attack (0 strength)
Starts with Commando
Basically its a Modern Explorer
I played around with the Code that appeared a while back for the Barbarian Envoy with this Unit, and it seamed to work ok. However at this stage of the game there is very little "Barbarian" cities left. although it made the Unit more worth while.

D) UAV (Aircraft Unit)
(might be what you mentioned with the Drone)
High Evade %
No Attack, Cannot Bomb etc...
Basically its a long range, Aerial Recon unit (16 to 20 range) i.e. double whatever the lowest was).

That and the Addition of the Spy Promotions and a few Espionage Wonders, seems to have added a new genre of Gameplay.

 

[The Capo]

I was thinking of making some type of modern explorer. My first idea was going to be a simple modern graphic for the explorer, which was why I ran the test with the settler groups with cars. If you remember a lot of people complained because you'd get those settlers before cars were made so it looked odd. I figured the same would be true if I made a modern skin for an explorer, it would come out earlier than I wanted it to.

The idea was to have a military-like vehicle, like a jeep or a motorbike, replace the explorer graphic. The next idea could be to make a new unit, but I wanted to have the UAV Drones (as you've suggested) and in my mind, there would be little point for this unit as it would have a very short life-time (like 1920 to 1990 or something) and would be practically pointless to add.

So I think from your list of ideas I would take the Special Ops unit (which I am already thinking about) and the UAV/Drone unit. The Diplomat is cool and all, but it seems rather redundant to me and on top of that it would require me to flavor each one. With the special ops units I can dress them in all black and nobody would know the difference.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

C) Diplomat (Espionage Unit)
Upgrade from Explorer
National Unit (limit 6)
Upgrade from Explorer
Can Enter Enemy Territory
Cannot Attack (0 strength)
Starts with Commando
Basically its a Modern Explorer
I played around with the Code that appeared a while back for the Barbarian Envoy with this Unit, and it seamed to work ok. However at this stage of the game there is very little "Barbarian" cities left. although it made the Unit more worth while.

Explorer upgrade to diplomat : OK
National Unit (limit 6) : OK
Can Enter Enemy Territory : Why ? Must have an open border agreementto cross borders
Cannot Attack (0 strength)How about keeping Explorer strength without attack ability ?
Starts with Commando : OK
Add a "Create embassy" mission that adds a number of espionage points toward the targeted civ and improve relation.
Can perform "steal military plans" and "steal technology"

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think that the Olympic Games should be added to a technology rather as an event, and only the civs with the technology discovered will take part (andl ike Apostolic Palace requires atleast 3 civs to have the tech).

 

[The Capo]

I think that the Olympic Games should be added to a technology rather as an event, and only the civs with the technology discovered will take part (andl ike Apostolic Palace requires atleast 3 civs to have the tech).

I might consider tweaking it for the deluxe edition, but I like it the way it is right now. I might try to edit it so that the host-city has to have a colosseum/stadium though.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Btw, it is true that you aren't adding BULL/BUG right? how come?

 

[Xyth]

Btw, it is true that you aren't adding BULL/BUG right? how come?

BUG is added already. Not sure if he's including BULL or not, will depend if any other SDK changes are included down the line.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I think that the Olympic Games should be added to a technology rather as an event, and only the civs with the technology discovered will take part (andl ike Apostolic Palace requires atleast 3 civs to have the tech).

I might consider tweaking it for the deluxe edition, but I like it the way it is right now. I might try to edit it so that the host-city has to have a colosseum/stadium though.

Don't add a tech req, it doesn't work that way in real life either.
But I fully support the stadium requirement

 

[Vortilex]

I would go for adding insurgency-type units. You know how when a government is toppled their fanatics begin to go out trying to regain power (Taliban, and the situation in Iraq), it should be a "last stand" by that civ, and if all the insurgents are removed, the civ is defeated. Of course, you'd have to play with the "require complete kills" option checked. All the units would turn into relatively weak insurgent units that, although they're easy to defeat, become the draft unit that civ would have been able to create (infantry, mech. infantry, etc.) once they capture a city (is all that even possible with XML and Python?)

 

[The Capo]

I would go for adding insurgency-type units. You know how when a government is toppled their fanatics begin to go out trying to regain power (Taliban, and the situation in Iraq), it should be a "last stand" by that civ, and if all the insurgents are removed, the civ is defeated. Of course, you'd have to play with the "require complete kills" option checked. All the units would turn into relatively weak insurgent units that, although they're easy to defeat, become the draft unit that civ would have been able to create (infantry, mech. infantry, etc.) once they capture a city (is all that even possible with XML and Python?)

I am already tinkering with the idea of adding the Partisans modcomp.

The only issues here are that the game already has the "rebellious city" feature which attempts to emulate this. I will admit, this feature is weak, I think coupled with some form of partisanship/insurgency it would be better. But at the same time, civ works on a different time-frame than reality, so I can't have an insurgency going on for fifty years just to put it in. I have to be careful to balance gameplay with history. Normaly I'd err on the side of gameplay, because after all, this is a game.

 

[The Capo]

So I have been watching that series, "Spartacus: Blood and Sand," lately and I had an idea. You know how a Golden Age can be started in some cases by sacrificing two GPs? I was wondering if you guys thought having "Games" would be a good idea. You'd have to have Slavery as a civic, and have a Colosseum/Stadium in the city you use them in. Basically you'd sacrifice two Gladiator units and for X amount of turns you get a happiness/gold bonus. What do you guys think?

I figure it'd be useful when you are in prolonged war and war weariness becomes an issue.

 

[The Capo]

Alright, no response there. Maybe this one will illicit a response.

I'm looking at some of the Air Promotions in Xenomorph's mod, and it seems to me that the Air Promotions will be relatively easy to integrate into the mod. I'm going to check his mod in-game and see what they're like. Depending on when GeoModder decides to send me the Polynesian city-set stuff, and when asiox3 finishes up his next round of jets I might update the mod a bit further so we can test out some air promos too. Or should I save this for the next playtest?

 

[AbsintheRed]

Oh, I missed the previous one. It's a very good idea, we just have to watch for balance.
I'm not totally sure on this what was the final decision, you get Gladiators/Thraex by upgrading slaves?
If yes, I totally second adding this option too, as you don't get that much slaves, and it's a very good use for them if you don't need extra workers.
Not to mention that this would be an awesome flavour

On promotions: If you still got time to add them before next playtest, why not?

 

[The Capo]

Alright, so I got the Air Promotions in. There is one, very slight, problem. They were originally created to go along with different air combat types (early air, air, jets, nuclear), which is fine because I can easily adapt them to the regular game. But now we have to figure just exactly how to do that. What I have done to make things VERY simple is set all the prereq techs to techs in the game (consider them placeholders) and then set the requisite promotion to combat1 (also consider that a placeholder). So here are the promotions (not in any particular order):

Ace

• Requires: Promotion Combat III
• +10% Interception Chance
• +25% Evasion Chance
• +20% v. Air Units

Air to Air Missiles I

• Requires: Promotions Combat I and Incterception I and Tech Advanced Flight
• +5% Interception Chance
• -5% v. AWater Units
• +5% v. Air Units
• -5% v. Land Units

Air to Air Missiles II

• Requires: Promotion Combat I and Interception II
• +10% Interception Chance
• -10% v. Water Units
• +10% v. Air Units
• -10% v. Land Units

Air to Air Missiles III

• Requires: Interception II and Combat I (huh?)
• +15% Interception Chance
• -15% v. Water Units
• +15% v. Air Units
• -15% v. Land Units

Interception I

• No Prerequirements
• +10% Interception Chance

Interception II

• Requirement: Interception I
• +20% Interception Chance

Interception III

• Requirement: Range I
• +10% Interception Chance

Gatling Guns

• Only for Gunship/Helicopter Units
• Requirement: Range II
• -50% Evasion Chance
• -25% v. Armored Units
• +50% v. Land Units

Range I

• Requirement: Combat II
• +1 Operational Range

Range II

• Requirement: Range I and Satellites
• +1 Operational Range

Range III

• Requirement: Range I and Composites (huh?)
• +2 Operational Range
• -5% Strength

ECM (not too sure what that stands for)

• Requirements: Combat I and Computers
• -1 Operational Range
• +20% Evasion Chance
• -15% Strength

Improved Radar

• Requirements: Combat I and Satellites
• +5% INterception Chance
• +5% Evasion Chance
• +20% v. Air Units

Here is what the promotion chart looks like. As you can see it is pretty disorganized and complicated:

​

Obviously this needs to be refined for this mod. There are a few issues I think we need to take care of. First we have to organize this much better. Anything that has I, II, and III should go in that order and not be split apart like this. Then we need to decide which techs, if any, should be necessary for some of these promotions. Obvious things like ECM (I think it has something to do with computers, it might be a specific military term, and if so I'd like for someone to explain it to me) and Improved Radar will be easier to figure out than others.

EDIT: I just realized something, I use the black interface here at CFC, so if that is the case the last one in white says "Improved Radar"

 

[The Capo]

I guess I can kick-start this conversation. I think we should replace Combat I for air units with something like Air Combat I, II, III just so we can keep the tree seperated and organized.

 

[AbsintheRed]

ECM is something about evading missiles, but I didn't check this either
What's that napalm looking icon right under the ace promotion's icon? That's for other unit types?

 

[Edgecrusher]

I guess I can kick-start this conversation. I think we should replace Combat I for air units with something like Air Combat I, II, III just so we can keep the tree seperated and organized.

One thing I liked to do was call the promotions "titles" instead of a I, II or III
i.e.
Veteran --> Top Gun --> Ace (same as the current promotion), but either way it doesnt matter.

I personally dont like the "Air-to-Air" missiles family concept of promotions. I always thought they should just be 1 promotion. (see note on the bottom)

Veteran/Top Gun/Ace : +X to base strength (ace also increases evasion)
(could also call it Ace I, II and III)
Interception I, II, III : +X to base interception rate
Range, I, II, III : +X to opperational range

Bombard (rename?): +25% vs Land Units
Torpedos: +X vs Water Units (also available to submarine/naval units)
Gatling Guns: +X vs Air Units (also available to helicopter units)

Air-to-Air Missiles: +X vs Helicopter (also available to helicopter units)
Ambush: +25% vs Armored (standard promotion)
Chaff: + 25% vs Missile Units (define cruise missile as a "missile class")(also increases evasion)

Radar: +X Interception rate (for land/sea based units)

Maybe a few other specialized promotions for various areas.

I think this limits confusion (both for AI and Human players). I am not sure how the AI would react to the +5 vs A, -5 vs B. I personally have never tried such promotions, nor am familiar with the logistics of the AI. but would they actually judge the negative number when making the decision to use the promotion? If it just picks the promotions randomly, then giving it a negative value can easily be countered by a human player.