General Politics Three: But what is left/right?

[Farm Boy]

My plan is to just point and laugh at people who are like "I will never eat a bug!" while eating shrimp and lobster.

I myself have no strong opinion about lab-grown meat, I guess I think it would be cool if they can make something that tastes as good as bacon without killing any pigs to do it, but I'm skeptical that this is truly possible.

The biological and disease risk are off the charts if brought to scale(not economical(the lab meats not the bugs, bugs work fine(though they do get the zombie fungus outbreaks, I do wonder what farming them does to thier disease profile))). It's a pick your poison sort of evil. Lab grown meat is much much worse for disease creation than prevaccinated confinement hog operations, and they make swine flu outbreaks. But they use the whole pig, immune system, brain, and all.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Debating how to reconfigure the EC while fascist militia plan to storm the election halls in November and the police are scrambling to shoot the voters failing the Democratic Party in the face, well it’s a little like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. By all means continue. Full steam ahead! The economy is good! Well except for all those vital characteristics. But I’ll tell ya, we’ve made a killing in fake MovieTickets.com listings.

I'm sorry, do you think debating any of those things on a forum like this accomplishes something? We could be discussing Top Chef or which formation Arsenal is going to use on the weekend, and have just as much as effect on the fascist militias as we would if we were discussing the fascist militias. Bu, hey, if you want to start a discussion about fascist militias, go ahead. Don't chide us for wanting to discuss something else.

 

[Lexicus]

Debating how to reconfigure the EC while fascist militia plan to storm the election halls in November and the police are scrambling to shoot the voters failing the Democratic Party in the face, well it’s a little like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. By all means continue. Full steam ahead! The economy is good! Well except for all those vital characteristics. But I’ll tell ya, we’ve made a killing in fake MovieTickets.com listings.

That was a few pages ago, but...yeah, I completely agree, it is rearranging the deck chairs. Outside of a literal handful of individuals the Democrats in Congress have revealed themselves to be perfectly willing to join hands with Republicans to have a phalanx of police crush dissent. Like imagine for a moment if GOP congressmen during a Trump presidency were saying that anti-Trump protesters were being funded by Iran, there would be a chorus of angry denunciations from the same liberal media figures and Democratic politicians.

The whole situation is absolutely insane, "the accord" as Farm Boy calls it, being torched completely, and for what? So that fudging Benjamin Netanyahu can avoid corruption charges in Israel? These pieces of garbage in the Democratic Party and liberal media deserve to be purged in a second Trump term honestly.

 

[Senethro]

The biological and disease risk are off the charts if brought to scale(not economical(the lab meats not tge bugs, bugs work fine)). It's a pick your poison sort of evil. Lab grown meat is much much worse for disease creation than prevaccinated confinement hog operations, and they make swine flu outbreaks. But they use the whole pig, immune system, brain, and all.

Is this actually based on something? Who says this? Who is in the business of extremely hypothetical risks here?

 

[Farm Boy]

Who says what? That keeping lab meats in slurries of antibiotics is a resistance risk if brought to industrial scale? You don't need to say it. DeSantis is dumb. He's tilting a windmill because he knows who is tripping out in this way.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The best case for lab grown meat is how we factory farm pigs, cows and chickens. World wide ranching is destroying many of the environmental safeguards that protect us. Today's ranchers are not far from the blacksmiths and buggy makers of 1895. But we do love our "back to nature" backyard BBQing.

 

[Lexicus]

Who says what? That keeping lab meats in slurries of antibiotics is a resistance risk if brought to industrial scale?

I'd appreciate a source on this, google isn't proving very helpful

 

[Senethro]

It makes sense. The ideal growth mediums for cells would not in fact be very different.

 

[EgonSpengler]

The best case for lab grown meat is how we factory farm pigs, cows and chickens. World wide ranching is destroying many of the environmental safeguards that protect us. Today's ranchers are not far from the blacksmiths and buggy makers of 1895. But we do love our "back to nature" backyard BBQing.

This is my thinking, too. If it's true that vat-grown meat uses just as much antiobiotics or water or energy as animal farms do, or produces just as much global-warming emissions, or whatever, and if those issues cannot be addressed, then maybe it isn't the solution we're looking for. Long-term, simply eating less meat is probably the best idea, but I think anything that could ameliorate any of the problems associated with farming animals has to be *ahem* on the menu. Vat-grown meat? Fine. Vegetable-based meat substitutes? Do it. Eat less meat overall? Better for you, anyway. International pressure on Brazil to stop destroying the rainforest? Yes. Use bugs for protein? Uh... well... okay, but I'm not going first.

 

[Narz]

I myself have no strong opinion about lab-grown meat, I guess I think it would be cool if they can make something that tastes as good as bacon without killing any pigs to do it, but I'm skeptical that this is truly possible.

It's possible just not affordable yet especially w all the subsides the meat industry gets

This is my thinking, too. If it's true that vat-grown meat uses just as much antiobiotics or water or energy as animal farms do, or produces just as much global-warming emissions, or whatever, and if those issues cannot be addressed, then maybe it isn't the solution we're looking for

Even if those were true there's still the plus-side of not having to raise sentient beings in torturous conditions for human pleasure

I'm sorry, do you think debating any of those things on a forum like this accomplishes something?

I think some people actually do think this. It's easy to take for granted that people posting online are fairly normal, sane adults without any serious delusions but the more I read online from people the more I realize this is not actually a good assumption.

 

[Crezth]

The biological and disease risk are off the charts if brought to scale(not economical(the lab meats not the bugs, bugs work fine(though they do get the zombie fungus outbreaks, I do wonder what farming them does to thier disease profile))). It's a pick your poison sort of evil. Lab grown meat is much much worse for disease creation than prevaccinated confinement hog operations, and they make swine flu outbreaks. But they use the whole pig, immune system, brain, and all.

Yeah I agree this synthetic meat thing is probably the wrong way to go, especially considering the other poisons they just let us eat as long as they can create a palatable and harmless-seeming product with it. I mean I guess the FDA exists but I don’t think they could possibly be trusted to ensure lab grown meat wasn’t poisoning everyone with as-yet undiscovered supercancer.

 

[really]

The EU elections are in a month.

Midlands–North-West (European Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

25 candidates for five seats in my constituency. It'll probably take me five minutes to give my preference all the way down. It will be hard to decide which of the two National Party candidates get 24 and 25.
There are a far right party that has had a very public split.
Missing gold bars last summer:

National Party: Irish far-right party's stolen gold bars spark funding query

The alleged theft of bars worth €400,000 prompts questions over how the National Party is funded.

www.bbc.com

Both candidates claim to be leader and one went on a rant recently describing the other as a useful idiot they put in place because they were malleable.

There are another 5 or 6 that are also far right of various flavours. No real hope of getting elected. One that isn't as far right might have a chance and did well in the last presidential election.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Electoral college votes isn't full representation, need to give residents of the territories votes on members of the house of reps and senate, too. Like normal federations.

Of course but none of that is going to happen anytime soon. Just allowing them to at least get counted in the POTUS election is as good a place to start as any.

 

[Cutlass]

Clearly not. I have no argument to make about why a line that demarks relative disadvantage should be used to decrease representation rights in favor of those who have measurably preferable outcomes on every metric.

But you keep arguing that because the minority party is getting almost all of their policy preferences, that they are entitled to having preferential political representation.

Your argument from the start has been that the party which gets the most votes must lose on policy because the party which gets less votes will be unheard if they do not win their preferences.

Under what scenario would you consider it fair that the majority of the voters get to make the majority of policy?

 

[Arwon]

Debating how to reconfigure the EC while fascist militia plan to storm the election halls in November and the police are scrambling to shoot the voters failing the Democratic Party in the face, well it’s a little like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. By all means continue. Full steam ahead! The economy is good! Well except for all those vital characteristics. But I’ll tell ya, we’ve made a killing in fake MovieTickets.com listings.

Sorry I'll get back to planning the liberation war

 

[Crezth]

See, now, was that so hard?

 

[Lexicus]

But the move was also supported by an unlikely supporter of Mr DeSantis, Senator John Fetterman, a Democrat from Pennsylvania. It "pains me deeply" to agree with Mr DeSantis, Mr Fetterman wrote on X, "but I co-sign this".

Fetterman is completely deranged wow

 

[Birdjaguar]

Going public with his thoughts is not a smart idea.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

As much as I abhor Fetterman, I know I'll be sporadically giggling over this for the next few days:

It "pains me deeply" to agree with Mr DeSantis

 

[Farm Boy]

But you keep arguing that because the minority party is getting almost all of their policy preferences, that they are entitled to having preferential political representation.

No, I explicitly disagreed with this. Cited example, they aren't in governance now, nor have they reliably been. If tracking correlation between federal control and the party of senators elected from small states.

In fact, I said the representation may not be preferential enough to yield measurables(rather than aspirationals) on equity. Which is why this whole thing is hilariously regressive. Hygro at least manned up to an efficiency and utilitarian angle.