Gods & Kings fears?

[Lyoncet]

Well I've got around an 80% win rate on Immortal, and I agree that happiness should be a little more plentiful (note: I did not say "easier to come by"). Not because I want to be unrestricted or more powerful, but because I want to have more options. I really liked that Civ IV allowed you to grow a very large empire if you wanted to (although it was probably far too rewarding to do so), but in Civ V I usually feel pretty stifled. That's not to say the game should be easier – it's already way too easy. But it would be nice to be given extra tools that, if you're willing to work for them and make sacrifices, would let you tool your gameplay towards supporting a higher city/population count.

Will Civ V accomplish that? Doesn't really look like it. I just wanted to point out that it's not a simple matter of those who want more abundant happiness sources simply wishing the game were easier.

 

[Glassmage]

I dunno why you would complain about lack of happiness. If you want, just go ahead and change the numbers in the XML files. Example: I made the +4 into +5 happiness for each luxury.

 

[Buccaneer]

Well I've got around an 80% win rate on Immortal, and I agree that happiness should be a little more plentiful (note: I did not say "easier to come by"). Not because I want to be unrestricted or more powerful, but because I want to have more options. I really liked that Civ IV allowed you to grow a very large empire if you wanted to (although it was probably far too rewarding to do so), but in Civ V I usually feel pretty stifled. That's not to say the game should be easier – it's already way too easy. But it would be nice to be given extra tools that, if you're willing to work for them and make sacrifices, would let you tool your gameplay towards supporting a higher city/population count.

Will Civ V accomplish that? Doesn't really look like it. I just wanted to point out that it's not a simple matter of those who want more abundant happiness sources simply wishing the game were easier.

I guess that's a key difference in game style: the super-abundance sandbox-like Civ4 vs. the restricted yields/resources of Civ5 where even 1 extra [something, like happiness] can make a difference. I strongly prefer the latter, makes each element more meaningful.

Example: I made the +4 into +5 happiness for each luxury.

I would think +3 would have been more fairer.

 

[Lyoncet]

I guess that's a key difference in game style: the super-abundance sandbox-like Civ4 vs. the restricted yields/resources of Civ5 where even 1 extra [something, like happiness] can make a difference. I strongly prefer the latter, makes each element more meaningful.

As do I. That was sort of my point; the CIV style vs. CiV style is a false dichotomy since they're pretty much at opposite extremes. I agree that it's way more fun to have restrictions like in V since working within limitations is more fun that maximizing output in a near-limitless system, but I also think a somewhat more flexible system that gives you the option to pursue population growth if you're willing to work for it would be good because it gives the player more choices for how to play the game. Right now that's pretty limited. You can turn a few gold into a few happiness by buying resources but those max out quickly (hopefully new luxuries and CS-exclusive luxuries will help here, but you'll still have the problem of tanking yourself if you lose the ability to trade for said resources), and you can go for the few happiness wonders, but that's more or less it. Social policies don't really let you focus it, since each tree has its own happiness boost. Happiness buildings are pretty much a given since they're necessary for a city to be worth its weight.

Adding some new knobs, like city-state-exclusive luxuries and religion happiness bonuses could help.

 

[Glassmage]

+3? Do you want to stay with 4 cities for the rest of the game?

 

[nokmirt]

+3? Do you want to stay with 4 cities for the rest of the game?

Ha Ha!!! I would prefer +5. Happiness is tough and can be aggravating. However, the system does teach you to think before using happiness, and when not too, as well as, when the right time to grow cities is. You have to think ahead and formulate a plan. That part of the game was quite challenging. So, +4 happiness for luxuries is just fine for me. When I can beat diety at +4, then I'll talk about going down to +3.

We all know, the human has advantage over the AI, and just because the AI builds larger cities does not close that gap in that regard. They build more units, and lose more. I would say the ratio probably would be about 2-3 AI units destroyed to every 1 human unit loss, perhaps more.

I play on Emperor and an AI would have cities between 20-30 pop regularly. Me, I was lucky to get my best cites up to 14-15, and that was pushing it. I did expand, but I also was fourth in empire size on the map. In fact, I was fourth in about every category, yet still won. I also call that luck, because I could have lost at any moment.

 

[albie_123]

My only fear is that the SDK continues to elude the community.

Seriously, what the hell, Firaxis? You said we'd have it literally years ago.

 

[Louis XXIV]

If years plural means at least two years, I don't think they promised it would be released the same time as the regular game. Back in February, they said it was definitely forthcoming but no promised release date. I'm hoping it's soon because they definitely seemed to imply it was heading towards release, but I think they've always avoided a specific timeframe for release.

The thing I wish they solved, that they definitely did promise, was to allow players in multiplayer to play against players with DLC even when they did not. Their eyes might have been bigger than their stomachs on that one, but it would have been great.

 

[glider1]

My only fear is that the SDK continues to elude the community.

Seriously, what the hell, Firaxis? You said we'd have it literally years ago.

Yeah the SDK is critical. The probability to me is:

1. release G&K and maintain interest with a patch or two
2. Once interest starts dropping off, release DLC
3. Closer to Christmas release a complete G&K special edition and combine with SDK release

It's a question of maintaining an income stream from the game as long as possible. If they release SDK too soon, the SDK release will interfere with the income stream from the first run of DLC after G&K.

There is no longer any intellectual property reason why the SDK code cannot be released. It's old technology that Paradox were able to duplicate without needing it.

The fear I have is that the balance between a superficial AI and a trivial AI will not have been found. Fingers crossed that at the very least we get more of a superficial AI this time.

Cheers

 

[Andulias]

My biggest fear, balancing aside, is that there still would be nothing to do while not at war. Slow production+workers getting useless a lot faster than in 4 because you don't have to build that many roads=boredom...

 

[Malachi256]

I'm worried the AI will still suck. I hardly get anywhere in my games now - the instant an AI starts throwing a game, or even just a skirmish, with bonehead moves it just kinda ruins my fun.

 

[Rupe]

I won't buy it until I see enough reviews from people here that think like I do that the diplo has been fixed enough to be fun. So my fear is that Civ 5 vanilla will be the last Civ game I ever buy. If this one doesn't get at least somewhat back to Civ's roots then its all over.

Here's hoping for the next BTS.

 

[King Kalmah]

I won't buy it until I see enough reviews from people here that think like I do that the diplo has been fixed enough to be fun. So my fear is that Civ 5 vanilla will be the last Civ game I ever buy. If this one doesn't get at least somewhat back to Civ's roots then its all over.

Here's hoping for the next BTS.

I agree 100%

 

[HiroHito]

Tbh I think the AI will suck.

 

[Buccaneer]

Now that we have most of the information regarding the new expansion, thought it would be interesting talk about fears you have for the game (based on speculative gameplay) – much like what we did prior to the Civ5 release.

Anyway, my fears are in three categories:

COMBAT – I enjoy Civ5’s combat more than any other feature and more than any of the combat of previous versions. My fear with G&K, with the change in defensive numbers, that not only will it take longer for a war to resolve but it could very well reach a point where stalemate will typically ensue. The best aspect of Civ5 combat was quality over quantity but will a small number of elite units be able to defeat forces 2-3x its size or will that now be too few?

HAPPINESS – One of the great equalizers for the human player (against AI opponents) is the struggle to maintain happiness, whether in trading or the consequences of going negative or sustaining conquests. With a bunch of positive happiness modifiers being added (a lot through religion), will this cease to be a factor? In other words, for good players, will there be less decision-making regarding happiness?

RELIGION – This has been said a few times but my biggest fear is that religion will fall into the predictable Civ4 pattern of us vs. them and force more contrived diplomatic verbiage and modifiers. I guess it remains to be seen how many variety of beliefs we can obtain and if there will be a diversity of followers that can even things out.

Looking back, it looks like Fear #1 probably is not there, as people are winning domination. However, I do not see many higher difficulties (Immortal+) and I haven't played for real yet, so this remains to be seen.

Fear #2, from what I've read, appears to be true. But I think this can be re-balanced in a patch or perhaps more of a challenge at Immortal+.

Fear #3 probably should've been stated differently. But it appears that religion does not fall into us vs. them patterns and thankfully, it appears that it can be just a minor element in the game, allowing you to put as much or as little effort into it without affecting winning or losing much.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Looking back, it looks like Fear #1 probably is not there, as people are winning domination. However, I do not see many higher difficulties (Immortal+) and I haven't played for real yet, so this remains to be seen.

Fear #2, from what I've read, appears to be true. But I think this can be re-balanced in a patch or perhaps more of a challenge at Immortal+.

Fear #3 probably should've been stated differently. But it appears that religion does not fall into us vs. them patterns and thankfully, it appears that it can be just a minor element in the game, allowing you to put as much or as little effort into it without affecting winning or losing much.

Looks like I was right. You got what you wanted. Me... well... I like 100HP.

Happiness abundance is indeed a 'problem'. AI should prioritize allying Mercantile CS, instead it picks allies randomly just as it did in vanilla.

 

[Buccaneer]

Looks like I was right. You got what you wanted. Me... well... I like 100HP.

Happiness abundance is indeed a 'problem'. AI should prioritize allying Mercantile CS, instead it picks allies randomly just as it did in vanilla.

Yep, on both accounts.