Going for peaceful cult win, ending up in world war

[bryanw1995]

So leaving Alex a city in some corner or letting someone else finish him will prevent mass denouncing from the others later on?

Yes. if you want to be really sneaky you can build a city on an island somewhere, gift it to him right before the final push, then take out all his cities on the continent. too many dow's, even against a universally hated civ, will also harm you, so be careful.

 

[bryanw1995]

In my current game with Arabia I invaded a city-state for its luxury and strategic resources and watched all AI's getting really mad with me! I was going for Diplomatic Victory, but now it's only possible if I earn enough money to make alliances with all city-states.

Yeah, um, a diplo victory is always only possible if you have enough $$ for alliances with city states. All major civs will only vote for themselves in the UN unless you have liberated a previously conquered civ (who then sort of acts like a vassal from civ4 and will vote for you).

 

[King Patrick]

Question regarding the negative impact of killing a Civ... last night I played a continents map where it was me and one other civ on the continent, and I wiped him out pretty early. If you kill a civ before either of you meet any other civ, do the other civs still know you've killed someone off?

Yes, once they contact you they know everything you've done. Which is not especially unrealistic:

"Why is this city named Athens when all your other cities have Egyptian names?"
"Oh, uh, no reason."
"What's this monument for?"
"Um, nothing."
"Really? Because this plaque says it commemorates your victory over Alexander. Who was he?"
"Er, just some guy. Nobody important. Hey, have you seen the Pyramids yet?"

 

[Jim Bro]

The same thing has happened to me three or so games in a row now. I'm trying to go for a peaceful culture victory but I end up in war with all the other major civs.


I'm playing as Ramesses(I know he might not be the best choice for a culture victory, but I love building powerful wonders), immortal difficulty, small pangea map with five AIs.
I start at a great location, river, hills, lots of wheat, incense, shielded on one side by a long mountain range etc.
The first other civ I discover is... Alexander, giddyup!
Since I know I'm gonna have to go to war with him anyway, I found my second city in the best location even though its very close to him.
Alex has denounced pretty much everyone else, they have denounced him, and when I see that he's about to attack my second city, I denounce him.
I fend him off and then capture Athens.
The other leaders are all friendly to me and OFC they like that we've denounced the same leaders.

My and Alex territory is shielded from the other civs by mountains almost all around. I want all that territory but my GPT has gone negative. So when Alex offers me massive GPT, gold and his next largest city I accept. I figure I can always take his other cities later.
I get my GPT positive and when the PT expires I take his other cities. I raze the useless ones and keep the ones in strategically good locations. I want all the territory within the mountain "shield".
Other civs are also at war with Alex but they don't accomplish much.

So, Alex is wiped off the map, I have a pretty good empire shielded from the others by mountains, good GPT, happiness etc. and I'm keeping up military wise by RAs.
So its all going well at this point, even though I don't get all the wonders I want but meh...
I've tried to pick the right leaders to be friends with. I've stepped on some toes but I can't keep up with who's friend with who and who's denounced who...
You should really be able to have a look at the diplomacy screen when someone asks for a DOF. It's like someone comes up to you in the street and says "wanna be friends!?" and you have to answer right away without thinking.

Then it happens... Persia denounces me, and goes from wanting friendly relations/being mad because I'm friend with one of their enemies, to having ten reasons to hate me.
Some rounds later he declares war and I have to spend pretty much all my attention and resources/production on defending Athens.
I manage, barely. Persia is the strongest civ in this game.
The other civs denounce me and now I'm a warmonger and whatnot.
WTF, the only civ I've denounced or declared war on is Alex, which they all hated.
I haven't gotten a single "you're too close" or "your army is too weak" the whole game.
I've turned down all, "wanna go to war with X?".
Yet, I am now the common enemy of all other civs.
Neb, declares war on me as well and I can't defend on two fronts.

GG... NOT!

I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. It seems like the other civs always find a reason to want to kill me.
And when I do manage to win, its always really late game. A lot of times I have to focus my whole empire on GPT to be able to buy off just enough CSs to keep someone from winning by "diplomacy" before I can win by culture or science.
I don't know how am I'm supposed to win any earlier than round 300 something.
Maybe I should play on continents? But that seems boring.

Any help and tips are welcome!

CIV5 diplomacy sucks but the game is a war game after all.. just destroy the outta them.

 

[brasaelal]

Yes, once they contact you they know everything you've done. Which is not especially unrealistic:

"Why is this city named Athens when all your other cities have Egyptian names?"
"Oh, uh, no reason."
"What's this monument for?"
"Um, nothing."
"Really? Because this plaque says it commemorates your victory over Alexander. Who was he?"
"Er, just some guy. Nobody important. Hey, have you seen the Pyramids yet?"

Huiahauihuahuah! Nice dialogue!

 

[ohioastronomy]

So, in other words, if you start next to a warmonger you have to fight them. If you do so, you're a warmonger too, and everyone will attack you. Thus you have to go for a military conquest, even if everyone else hated the same guy, and no matter how long you wait. In what sense is this good design?

 

[King Patrick]

So, in other words, if you start next to a warmonger you have to fight them. If you do so, you're a warmonger too, and everyone will attack you. Thus you have to go for a military conquest, even if everyone else hated the same guy, and no matter how long you wait. In what sense is this good design?

You don't get branded a warmonger for defending yourself, only for conquering cities and city-states, and for all but the most sensitive AIs (Elizabeth, mostly), you have to do it several times in order to get the dreaded "warmonger" label. So your premise is entirely false - the most common configuration of this complaint is "The AIs say I'm a warmonger just because I razed every city on the continent and took over five city states, but, see, I had good reasons!"

 

[cccv]

"cult win." I like that. From now on when I go for a culture OCC win I'm going to roleplay that my city is home to a creepy cult, and building utopia amounts to indoctrinating the rest of the world and its leaders.

Oh, and while most of what people said was right, I can also add: unless the world seriously and unanimously hates someone, you're better off staying out of the Declaration Ofs. That way you don't make anyone like you more, but much, much more importantly, you don't make anyone like you less. And I agree, there needs to be a way to find out what you're getting yourself into before accepting or declining those offers, but in general you should stay out if you don't want anyone pissed off at you.

 

[forty2j]

Yeah, Imperial, though you say you're going for a peaceful culture victory, you're not really playing it that way. (Which is fine, of course, but if that's what you really want...)

There's nothing wrong with the Puppet Empire cultural victory.. in fact, I prefer it.. but yeah, it's certainly not peaceful.

 

[RedneckRapture]

I LOVE world wars. I had one game where it was all against me. Really pushes your strategic genius to the maximum. My one piece of advice if you want a game where they don't try to bash your brains out, go specifically for what you're after and don't invade anyone. Fight defensively. If someone declares war on you, beat the royal f*&#% out of their military and NOTHING ELSE. When the war starts costing them too much they should pursue peace. At least that's how it was when I got a culture victory.

 

[gdr10]

My one piece of advice if you want a game where they don't try to bash your brains out, go specifically for what you're after and don't invade anyone. Fight defensively. If someone declares war on you, beat the royal f*&#% out of their military and NOTHING ELSE. When the war starts costing them too much they should pursue peace. At least that's how it was when I got a culture victory.

I played a game as France, fought defensively, and most of the civs left me alone after I curb-stomped their military. Even any cities that I puppeted I gave back.