GOTM 07 Pre-Game Discussion

[MDPhillips]

~ Research to aim for an Oracle/ CS slingshot.

I've read about a "slingshot" strategy several times, but am not sure exactly what it means. Can someone please enlighten me?

What is the "CS" shorthand for? And are there other "slingshots"?

Thanks!

 

[Methos]

CS stands for Civil Service, which allows Bueacracy (sp?). Oracle grants a free tech so finishing it just as you finish Code of Laws allows you to get CS. Another somewhat slingshot is through Liberalism, which also grants a free tech.

It's somewhat similar to the Philo/Republic slingshot in Civ3.

 

[culdeus]

I did a few practice games to 1000bc. I was suprised at how often another AI was really close to the starting spot. Also noted that two of ten times the settler had desert in the fat cross at start (someone said they never saw that before)

Lots of desert and in general after the capital site there aren't many good city sites w/o jungle all over.

Lots of gems/gold for some reason.

Due to the likely proximity of AI I'm gonna just do the classic axe rush to start.

 

[Jastrow]

I did a few practice games to 1000bc. I was suprised at how often another AI was really close to the starting spot. Also noted that two of ten times the settler had desert in the fat cross at start (someone said they never saw that before)

Interesting... It was I who said he had never seen that before. I just went in an generated 25 maps using this games settings, and I still have never seen it. I see tons of deserts starting 2 squares diagonally from the settler location, but not once did I see on in the fat cross.

Maybe the game just knows how much I dislike deserts...

 

[Cyrillin]

I also did about a dozen regenerations with these settings, but didn't get any desert in the fat cross. It's obvious from the picture that we don't have to worry about that with this starting position. I played a few practice games as well, and also found that the AI tends to be rather close. It think that it is because on tropical, the whole equatorial region is almost completely jungle, so it cuts that off for early settlement causing civs to crowd each other more. I tried working toward cultural victories, but it's really not my thing, so I think that I am going to go warmongering The AI doesn't seem to protect overly well on Prince.

Just as a side note. It's a funny kind of irony that Saladin starts with both Pigs and Wine close by

 

[Grogs]

Just as a side note. It's a funny kind of irony that Saladin starts with both Pigs and Wine close by

Ha! Maybe we should play an optional roleplaying variant where you're not allowed to hook up those 'bad' resources.

Seeing as how this is a tropical start, I think picking up IW will be a fairly early priority. Also, I'll probably build more workers than normal for jungle clearing operations. The AI's tend to be quite poor at this, so I find it common that the AI's cities will still be buried in jungle a thousand years after I've cleared my cities out.

 

[Cyrillin]

Ha! Maybe we should play an optional roleplaying variant where you're not allowed to hook up those 'bad' resources.

That sounds like a good idea for the challenger class

 

[slowrider]

Be careful about racing for Buddism on the opening ploy. Even with the Spritual trait and extra floodplains/river gold (total of 10 GPT research), on numerous practice starts I alway end up one belly flop late. I’ve had no problem nabbing Ploytheism/Hinduism though and doesn’t the Partheon (+50% GP production) seem like a good fit with Philosphical (+100 GP production).

 

[culdeus]

Ha! Maybe we should play an optional roleplaying variant where you're not allowed to hook up those 'bad' resources.

Seeing as how this is a tropical start, I think picking up IW will be a fairly early priority. Also, I'll probably build more workers than normal for jungle clearing operations. The AI's tend to be quite poor at this, so I find it common that the AI's cities will still be buried in jungle a thousand years after I've cleared my cities out.

I've noticed pigs buried in jungle. I don't remember this before 1.61. So much jungle and desert. Not alot of quality city sites early. I'd imagine there will be some overlap of the first three cities.

I get so bored doing cult/sr/diplo that I pretty much go for dom/conq every time anyways. Might as well again.

So with this crappy UU do the flankings stack with the unit characteristics or are you not given the option of flanking for camel archers?

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

So with this crappy UU do the flankings stack with the unit characteristics or are you not given the option of flanking for camel archers?

Haven't tested it in combat, but on screen it shows them as being stacked. So if you get Camel Archers in a city with Barracks & Vassalage, it can start with a 55% withdraw chance!!

Don't know what I want to try this time. If I go warmongering I probably won't even get to build camel archers, but for any of the other types these seem to be the best one to use for mid-game expansion. Being able to keep over 1/2 of my expected losses is awesome.

 

[malekithe]

Does anyone else think it looks like the pigs might be on a river? The hill to their east definitely is. I just can't tell which way that river winds and the resource marker is covering up the any commerce the tile might be producing. If it is on a river, I see absolutely no real downside in moving the city onto the plains hill (I never see having to crowd cities a bit as a downside). The only downside that could potentially arise is if the land to the east doesn't allow for a city on the caost to take advantage of the likely seafood.

 

[GenMarshall]

@Malekthe - I realy cant tell, but it most certanly looks like its not connected to a river network. I do however plan to take advantage of thoes rivers.

 

[Jove]

If Saladin is to eat pork and drink wine, why not go completely out of character and go for a diplomatic win?
I like the idea of settling on the plains hill for the extra shield. At the bare start, that seems more useful than anything else.

 

[Memphus]

Well I'll give this one a real go after missing GOTM 5 due to a new job and plannign a wedding...
(however ever wonder if you can a game on Noble without researching a single tech? We will soon find out with my GOTM 6 game , I just started it today and felt in a wierd mood, so far so good)

But as for this game.

Prince Difficulty, Definet CS slingshot with the Oracle. Roughly 1000 B.C.

Settler will go one tile east for sure.

As for Reasearch path, depending on tech pace (demographics) I will wager if I can get Buddism or not, Although Ultimately I like Confucianism more since it spreads faster =

Anyways looks to be a good one And I am excited to invest into a GOTM again

 

[culdeus]

why would confuc. spread faster?

 

[Memphus]

why would confuc. spread faster?

Well I don't know the exact numbers but:

Buddism, Hinduism, Judaism == Slow

Confuscianism, Christianity = Medium (and start with Missionary)

Toasim, Islam = Fast (also start with Missionary)

Where the speed is the chance that it will spread "natuarally" to a city each turn.

So By getting Confucianism earlier it can naturally spread faster than the 3 initial religions (plus it is an integral part to CS sling )

 

[Jastrow]

As for Reasearch path, depending on tech pace (demographics) I will wager if I can get Buddism or not....

How does the Demographic screen contain this information? Do you just look at Gold, and assume that everyone has 100% science turned on at this stage? If so, do you need to correct for AI research advantage? (How much is that at Prince)?

Any help would be appreciated. I am intrigued by this idea, as it never occured to me that I might be able to garner any information about a rush to Buddhism now that the top 5 cities no longer tells me if a religious zealot is around.

 

[Ljdjr]

How does the Demographic screen contain this information?

I believe the Demographic screen refers to the top 5 cities screen. If you can see some civs that are in the game, you can somewhat determine how many are starting with Mysticism.

I remember it as the AIs start with mysticism. Arabs, Aztecs, (not America but), Inca, India (only I civs, and), Spain (only s civ)

That's my take anyhow. YMMV.


EDIT: Ignore all that. It appears the Top 5 screen does not give early knowledge. Cool.
I also see some info might be gleaned from the Demographics screen exactly like you said Jastrow.

 

[Memphus]

How does the Demographic screen contain this information? Do you just look at Gold, and assume that everyone has 100% science turned on at this stage? If so, do you need to correct for AI research advantage? (How much is that at Prince)?

Any help would be appreciated. I am intrigued by this idea, as it never occured to me that I might be able to garner any information about a rush to Buddhism now that the top 5 cities no longer tells me if a religious zealot is around.

Basically you look at the GDP of the civ. You can see the top civ, the average and the bottom civ (as well as your own)

By doing a calculation (don't have my sheets with me) you figure out the adjusted price of the tech.

The GDP is how many beakers per turn the AI will get

An example if the havea floodplain tile they will have +9, if not + 8, an Oasis +10

As long as your GDP is > than all other AI you are guaranteed to get it if you research first. Even if you are tied for first you will get it (pending on the difficulty multiplier)

Hope that helps.


Note this really only works early on, as later they have more cities and figuring out is harder but can still be guessed (to an extent)

 

[malekithe]

I'm feeling a bit crazy for this GOTM and want to do something different. Saladin's traits are two that I rarely use to their full effect. To this end, I've been thinking about adding a little variant to this game. I'm thinking about attempting to go for a no-cottage cultural victory. The idea being: Nearly all of my culture would come from specialists, buildings, and wonders. The hope is that this would force me to focus on the strengths of Saladin's traits.

I may be kicking myself after clearing all the jungle to reveal lucious grassland... we'll see. It'll be interesting, also, to see if I can be anywhere near competitive using this variant. Anyone who wants to join me is more than welcome.