GOTM 52 Final Spoiler

I retired in about 2160 something. Twice I came within 11 votes of winning, but then either Napoleon or Peter switched sides on me (Mao was my opponent). Right at the end, HC suddenly became my opponent, so I would have had to start everything again from scratch.

Guess I need to learn a lot more about diplo victories!

Jack
 
It should have been fun to play this nice game for a fast victory, but this time I went for the cow instead. :cowboy:

I ran a cottage economy - it was strong enough to allow settler spamming, and by being first to Astro by a mile I could claim not only the EL and ice islands, but also the great barb city and its surroundings in the Korea/Siberia region.

I used that area as a reserve to gift cities worth 20 pop to Peter in the end, when Hattie and Mansa had overtaken him in pop. I ran out of patience and accepted the victory in 2024AD, when I had 613 pop and 78 Future Techs, for 10k+ base score. I had Hattie, Mansa and Capac voting for me.

Maybe farming over cottages in the end would be better, but that would be too much worker micromanaging, even for my tastes.:p
 
I SUCK at DIPLOMACY!

I'm sure my GK teammates will agree with me on this point. :(

I eventually got a Diplo win in 1880AD, not very impressive at all IMO.

I settled every off continent island and/or scrap of land that had at least 1 food resource, and some that didn't even have that. I did capture the barb city on the east coast of the old world, settled a city N of there to get the lone fish, and eventually pushed Peter's culture westward enough to settle another city west of the barb city. I settled the wheat city on the south tip under Capac. I also settled on the 1 tile island west of "Panama" and flipped Capac's city on the island south of that. I flipped another Capac city on 1 of the islands east of the "South America". I settled 2 (1) tile fish islands in the "Indian Ocean", and of course EL and the ice/tundra in the south.

All this settling was NECESSARY because I SUCK at DIPLOMACY!

I thought I had stayed away from the dreaded -4 for "you traded with our worst enemy", but I ended up having 3 different opponents, and eventually had that negative modifier with EVERYONE!

This wasn't pretty, but I finally got Hatty and Musa to vote for me against Napoleon(or Louis), the French!!!
 
First attempt at diplomacy and since I was hopelessly deadlocked at 2050 I woefully retired. Actually the last hundred turns were very boring -trying to increase modifiers (unsuccessfully) and hitting enter a lot. I think I need to spam cities a lot faster than I did and I certainly need to understanding trading better. I have a lot to learn but not sure I can do all the micromanaging required to get good results in CIV4.

tj
 
All this settling was NECESSARY because I SUCK at DIPLOMACY!

It sounds like you had some good cities in the Old World. Did you consider building the UN in one of these cities and gifting it to Peter? At least that way, you would have known whom your opponent would be and you could have planned your diplomatic actions accordingly. Having three different opponents sounds crazy... :crazyeye:
 
Retired 2050 :(

I should have done a lot better than I did. A few mistakes was all it took to derail my economy and slowed my growth. I did manage to block in HC by settling south of the gems in Central America. Finished the UN in 1860 and my opponents were both flipping between HC and Peter, with whom I was both friendly with, but would vote for each other when push came to shove.

Mansa Musa was the next biggest, however he was HC’s enemy (among others) and I took a massive hit trying to shore up a win by talking to him. In the end the closest I came to victory was a lousy 100 odd votes in the UN. :mad:

Not having much experience with the diplo victory I think I learn’t my lessons. As a peacemonger, surprisingly I found the always peace as much a hindrance as a blessing. Kudos to the map maker for putting on a different flavour of game. Enjoyed it thoroughly!
 
It sounds like you had some good cities in the Old World. Did you consider building the UN in one of these cities and gifting it to Peter? At least that way, you would have known whom your opponent would be and you could have planned your diplomatic actions accordingly. Having three different opponents sounds crazy... :crazyeye:

I actually did build it in the captured barb city. I planned to give it to Musa when it was being built, because nobody liked him. But he wouldn't take it. :(

Mao would have taken it, but the people voting for me, liked him better, so that was a no go.
 
Peter was just massive in my game. Massive. And almost everyone on his continent loved him. (It's been weeks since I finished it so I can't remember who didn't). Some of them were "pleased" with Peter even though they only had +2 (or +3) diplomacy total towards him.

My big mistake was trading with the Old World civs the turn I met them for the +4 Trade modifier, accruing a -ve with the others.

Still peeved at HC. After I'd cultivated his friendship all through the early era, as soon as he met Peter he fell in love at first sight.
 
I decided to try for high score vs. fast finish. I think I did OK, but not sure about some of my decisions.

What I did good:
  • blocked off HC so I could settler North America at my leisure
  • planned NA cities carefully so I could fit in as many as possible
  • got some good cottage cities going quickly

What I am not sure about:
  • Beelined for MM before Bio. It took me a long time to build UN, which was OK since my pop (and score) was growing the whole time. Since UN was slow maybe it was OK to reasearch Bio after. However, I wonder if I should have researched Bio first to start pop growth earlier. I'll be curious to see if the gold metal winner researched Bio before MM (or skipped it altogether and went for a very early win).
  • I waited a long time to research Optics and explore (I think 500 AD). This may have slowed my tech down since I had no tech trading partners. Also, even though I was able to settle some of the islands, I did not do so early enough for their pop to grow out.

Screw-ups:
  • Was slow in trying to set up a GP farm, then wasted hammers trying to build NE in it. My NE-driven "farm" ended up only producing one great scientist :cringe:.

Some key stats:
  • Ended with 34 cities.
  • 5 Great Scientists (one from Physics), 1 Great Prophet
  • Oracle complete in 1120 BC (took CS)
  • Great Lib built in 200 AD
  • Kong Maoi built in 600 AD
  • Techs popped from huts: Astronomy and Drama
  • NE built in 1000 AD :rolleyes:
  • Oxford built in 1060 AD (ouch :()
  • Biology learned: 1530 AD
  • UN built in 1570 AD (no rush ;))
  • Win diplo victory: 1680 AD
  • Base Score: 3657
  • Final Score: 54,245

Final word: I enjoyed the game a lot, thanks Erkon :goodjob:. I enjoy needing to think through variations I've never played. All in all, I think a pretty mediocre effort on my part. In hindsight, I should have tried a practice game first.
 
1832 Diplo victory on 1st vote, 23k. Didn't pop any GE :mad:

When I sailed over at ~700 they all were united in Judaism, and all friendly to each other. I in the meantime went bhudist to get HC friendly and finally turned to free religion to get the rest friendly. Didnt beeline but played a little around. Have probably researched 15 techs too many and lost 20 turns building the damn UN!

Anyway, fun too play with "always pizza". Would be interested to have more games with some VC's turned off.
 
The Strategy: Win a Diplomatic Victory
My Method of Achieving said Strategy: Do what I do best--use a Cultural Victory path :culture:


THEORY: SCIENCE IS BETTER :science:
I imagine that the winner of this game will be someone who is great at teching quickly. The faster that you can get to Astronomy, the faster that you be able to meet the other AIs and thus start to cement good relations (Open Borders bonus, Resource Trading bonus, a Shared Civic bonus, possibly a Shared Religion bonus, etc). Had this map been a true "Terra" type of map, with everyone starting in "the old world," the same logic would apply but for a different reason--the faster that you can get to Astronomy, the faster that you can grab the vacant land (or steal it from the Barbs) and collect a bunch of Resource-providing, Science-rate-increasing, Population-booming locations.

Similarly, if you are fast to tech, you can get to Mass Media quickly enough to be able to take your time in building The UN while you grow your empire. You'll also be able to research MORE techs than the rest of us in the same amount of time, giving you access to a wider range of mid-to-late-game techs that can boost your empire's potential.

However, my specialty does not lie in teching quickly, so I did not think that I could compete in this manner.


MY APPROACH :think:
My goal was to found as many religions as I could.

The more AIs that have a Holy City, the harder it will be to get them to be in the same religion as each other. The less AIs that have a Holy City, the easier it will be to manipulate the State Religions of the AIs, and thus the easier it will be to get your chosen allies into the same religion as you and the easier it will be to get your targeted voting opponent into a differing religion.

Not starting with Mysticism, I decided to go down the Polytheism & Monotheism tech path, foregoing any shot at Buddhism.

I actually hoped that much of the world would thus become Buddhist--it would be hard to get the Buddhism founder out of that religion, so it would be easier just to join the pack and become Buddhist than to try and impose one of my founded religions on the world. Let the Buddhism founder advocate the religion and spread the Missionaries for me and thus allow me to reap the rewards of their efforts!


THE EXECUTION :strength:
I wanted the visible 2 Flood Plains, 2 Wines, and 2 Grassland Hills River squares within our borders. Settling on the Desert Hills to the north would have done so and allowed me access to the Coast for building The Great Lighthouse. But, in the end, the temptation of settling on the Plains Wine for the extra Commerce, plus being able to do so one turn earlier, won out--I wanted to put the chances of snagging early religions as much in my favour as possible.

After that, I would grab as many techs for building Wonders as I dared. Since I needed to get Masonry early (as it is a pre-requisite of Monotheism), I definitely wanted to grab Sailing and try for The Great Lighthouse. Thus, I would have to quickly settle a city on the Coast. Also, since I needed to get Masonry early, I wanted to settle either my second or third city near Stone or Marble, and then pump out a few of said Resource's related Wonders.

Then I would head towards Code of Laws for Confucianism and a shot at getting Civil Service from The Oracle. Following up would be Theology, Philosophy, and eventually, Divine Right.


EXPLORATION :scan:
I wasn't sure if we were on the US east coast or Chinese east coast, but I figured that one of those two possibilities had to be right (although you can never trust a map maker!).

Either way, exploring in a southward direction made the most sense.

The land to the north-west of China is usually barren land (poor Mongolians), while to the south you usually find juicy Resources in the Vietnam area. Also, there would be a good chance of finding India in our game, and without us being able to declare war, settling any of India's good city locations would have to be done quickly or not at all.

Of course, if my guess of America being in North America from the pre-game thread was right, then we'd be reasonably certain of this fact if we found a South America.

As it was, I found the Marble. Using one of the game's Hints--that about "if you find a far-away Resource, keep a unit nearby, if for no other reason than to find out who will eventually get it," I camped the Warrior nearby and formed a fog-busting line to the Marble.

Two early Settlers came out, one to settle near the Marble (I was very tempted to settle on it) and one to settle on the Coast for building The Great Lighthouse.


EARLY GAME BUILDS :hammer:
Well, both of those two cities produced a Worker first. I think that it was a mistake with the Marble city, as by the time that I had built an Obelisk next and waited for the city's borders to expand, I was really pushing the lateness of building The Oracle. There was no way that this city would be able to do it, so the task was left to the capital. As it was, the capital only got Marble-infused production on the last turn of building The Oracle.

I think that I snuck in another Settler in the capital afterwards, but then had a desire to make proper use of the Marble. So, the capital went on to building The Parthenon, The Great Library, and The National Epic.


TECHING AND RELIGIONS :science: :religion:
I did manage to snag Hinduism, Judaism, and Confucianism.

Once it became apparent that we were isolated with just Huayna as a buddy (and possibly with another AI to the south of him, such as Montezuma, that I wasn't about to Open Borders just to check for the presence of), I realized that I was in a bit of a pickle with my plan.

You see, Huayna had founded Buddhism.

Religions don't spread well overseas without Astronomy. If we founded all of the religions in our part of the world, then religious spread would be chaotic once Astronomy was learned--all of the religions would spread relatively equally and I would end up with a lot of religious strife. That would mean that I wouldn't be able to trade with many AI at once for over-time shared bonuses (Open Borders, Resource Trades, etc), for fear of being accused of having traded with someone else's worst enemy at any point in time.

When an AI goes from having no religion to getting their first religion, they'll almost always (if not always) convert immediately, regardless of the resulting political situation, and the havoc that this kind of changing diplomatic situation can create is not a situation that I was willing to live with.

So, I let Christianity go. There was a chance that Huayna (or Montezuma or whoever else might be south of Huayna) might found it, but then it would be unlikely that they would ALSO found Islam, so that left the AI in "the old world" two chances at founding a religion and getting a massive lovefest going on.

I still wanted to snag Philosophy, though, so as not to leave too many chances for religious strife to occur.

Oh, one other thing to mention--I grabbed Civil Service with The Oracle, which was only really useful for the fact that the tech cost a lot to research. Normally, it is great to grab this tech because of the Bureaucracy bonus, but when you forget to switch to the Bureaucracy Civic for several centuries... :mischief: :rolleyes: :eek:


HUTS :viking:
I managed to score two maps of areas that I had already explored and 35 Gold or so, late in the game. I, think, however, Huayna scored Astronomy from a Hut, as I think that someone mentioned that there were two Huts nearby and I only found one on an island near Huayna. He also seemed to have grabbed the tech awfully quickly after learning Optics. Perhaps he bulbed it, but do AIs even use Great People in this manner?

Either way, I saved 5 turns of research on Astronomy, which was a fair trade for giving up the best Australian location to Huayna.


GREAT PEOPLE :gp:
Well, I killed my relatively-early-game Settler production in order to pump out a Great Scientist, which got used on an Academy.

I also managed to score 2 Great Prophets (1 became a Holy Shrine and the other settled), 2 Great Artists (the joys of building The Parthenon and The National Epic), 1 Great Engineer (saved for a good number of turns for The UN), and I think that's it, other than the freebies from Music and Physics.

Not nearly as many Scientists as I'd hoped for, but I'd take 1 Great Engineer over 3 Great Scientists in a game like this one.


THE UNITED NATIONS--WHERE TO BUILD IT AND SHOULD I GIFT IT? :dunno:
THE INITIAL PLAN
Initially, the plan was to build The UN near Huayna and gift it to him. He had been reasonably blocked in. He would be close enough to us to accept a gifted city. I could also thus build The UN in a city that would be big enough to pump it out in a reasonable amount of time.

Sure, we were the best of buddies (at one point, I had him up to +22 in relations with no negative modifiers--the benefit of not having anyone around to be his "worst enemy"), but there was a good chance that with him locked solidly into Buddhism and the rest of the world able to be "convinced" into a different (yet similar as each other) religion, I would be able to secure everyone else's votes.

Further, this way, I would be able to control who my opponent was from Day 1, so that I wouldn't have to worry about alienating a "victim" as a voting opponent, only to turn around and find myself up against someone else as my opponent and thus losing my previous victim's votes to the new opponent.

THE REVISED PLAN
Once I had met the other AIs, though, and the diplomatic situation revealed itself, I changed my mind.

After making some premature Map Trades (I should have waited until I'd met everyone--I ended up with a -4 Trading with our Worst Enemy modifier with the one AI that I hadn't met--Napoleon--for having traded with SOMEONE--I don't even know which trade sparked this hatred), I was able to get a good handle on the situation.

With a little bit of tallying of city populations, I found that Mansa Musa was clearly ahead in the population realm and he had room to grow--a Wheat not Irrigated, a Fish without a Work Boat, cities that were small but near food--while most of the others were much farther behind him in population.

Mansa Musa was also the only AI not to have a religion at all. That did it. Bam, Open Borders with Mansa Musa to get him a non-Christian religion. Trade Mansa Musa as many Resources as I could (to help him be convinced to grow his cities and expand--he even built two more marginal cities near seafood Resources after this "prompting").

Mansa would be my target opponent. So, The UN would be built in my Bureaucratic capital.


FURTHER RELATIONS WITH THE AIs :high5:
Well, once Mansa snagged a religion, I started spamming Missionaries of that religion over to his lands. I didn't want him to "suddenly see the light" and switch over to Christianity.

I was somewhat successful, but part-way into my Missionary spreading, Mao asked me to cancel my deals with Mansa. I felt obliged to agree to the demand, as, with Mansa now in a differing religion and me having gained a +4 Trading bonus with most of the Old World AIs (meaning that my negative modifiers from being in Buddhism were not that big of a deal), Mansa was soon becoming everyone's worst enemy. So, if not Mao, it would be someone else asking soon enough, and I wasn't about to piss off all of my potential voting public just to give Mansa a few more Missionaries and Resources.

Plus, with Mansa starting to be "excommunicated" by the Christian block and borders being closed, there would be much less of a chance for anyone to spread Christianity to him.

From then on, it became imperative to refuse ALL of Mansa's demands. Also, before making any further trades, I would check the F4 Glance screen to see if anyone had become someone else's worst enemy. In essence, I was doing my best to "keep my nose clean."


HOW TO GET CHRISTIANITY :religion:
Well, all of the cities that I'd settled early on had Buddhism as a religion (it was easier to adopt Huayna's religion than to try and get him to convert to one of mine), and I wouldn't be able to take over the religion by conquest. So, I started spamming cities just after learning Astronomy.

I built these cities everywhere: England, Finland, Siberia, in the India Ocean, Australia, and even a couple at home into which I did not manually spread a religion. With 13 potential Christianity-obtaining candidate cities and with more Settlers to come, as necessary, I felt that getting Christianity was only a matter of time.

It would not matter HOW MANY cities had the religion--I only needed one. I was willing to give up on my religious Happiness bonus and Religious Civic bonuses in favour of the improved diplomatic relations.


GETTING MASS MEDIA :science: :gp:
After researching Electricity, my saved-up Liberalism-in-one-turn tech was learned, giving me Radio. My 3 saved Great Artists (sigh, too bad they weren't Great Scientists, but I digress) bulbed me Mass Media in one turn.


BUILDING THE UN :hammers: :gp:
I built The UN in 5 or 6 turns in my capital, thanks to a Great Engineer and Bureaucracy. I was actually still building Oxford University when I learned Mass Media, with 2 turns left to go to complete it, haha. See, I told you that my teching game isn't very solid! I was also caught off guard by how quickly I picked up Mass Media--two turns after researching Electricity--one for Liberalism and one for the bulbed Mass Media to complete. Still, it was nice not to have to gift The UN away to Huayna, as that meant that I could build the Wonder that much faster, as well as being able to keep said city's population points "on my side of the voting."


VOTING :deal:
With Christian brothers and sisters of faith, as well as an adoring Buddhist Huayna, I sailed to victory. Mansa voted for himself. No one else voted for Mansa. Napoleon was the only holdout, having a big negative "you traded with our worst enemy" modifier, as well as the fact that he'd converted to Buddhism. Everyone else voted for me, allowing me to cruise to an efficient victory.


TECHING BEYOND MASS MEDIA :science: :espionage:
Well, I managed to finally finish Oxford University, but I only got a few turns' worth of use out of it. About all I had time to tech was Communism, for State Property (useful for a far-flung empire like mine), Spies (if required--Mansa was only trading with Hatshepsut), and a chance at a Shared Civic bonus with Mao. The Shared Civic bonus did not even come into play, as Mao liked me enough for sharing his State Religion and for being nice to him. After one tech gift, he'd said something to the effect of: "your fair dealings with the Chinese people will not go unrewarded," and he was true to his word!

There was no chance of getting Biology anytime soon, as I hadn't even learned Gunpowder or Chemistry. Fortunately, with the world in your back pocket, it doesn't matter what percentage of the votes you yourself cast.

Now, if only I were able to tech at a reasonable pace, I might have been able to do it sooner.


OTHER COMMENTS
Thanks, Erkon, for revealing the nearby water squares, allowing me to forego settling on the Coast with my capital with few regrets (even by settling on the Desert Hills square, there was no chance of revealing seafood).

I don't follow the logic of not letting us see the Blue Circles in the opening screenshot. Surely, one can see the circles immediately upon opening the save (unless you have the blue circles disabled). So, what is the harm of us using them to discuss our game? If nothing else, the community benefits by sharing the knowledge of what blue circles may tell us, instead of a few people with said knowledge being forced into hording it for themselves. for :think:


I liked the Always Peace option, but I honestly would have preferred if more of the Victory Conditions had been enabled.

It would have been a fun challenge to have tried to score a Domination Victory on this kind of a map, where you'd have to rely on using cultural tactics to squeeze in additional cities near the various AIs.

It would have also been fun to let the Barbs take over your island cities (leave enough fog for a Barb unit to spawn or let one spawn before settling), as well as some of your mainland cities. Tech to The Internet. Let the Barbs capture The Internet. See if the Barbs can help you to conquer the world (with infinite time, it might have been possible, assuming that Barbs will ever load units onto Galleys/Transports). If you can pull it off, there would be your Conquest Victory.

Okay, maybe Space and Cultural Victories were out of scope here, since they'd be too easy to achieve on this map, but sometimes it helps to leave alternative options (in this case, the military Victory Conditions) for people to have fun. The Pre-game discussion thread's tied-up gun image could have still made sense in this context, as you would have either been Dominating peacefully or brokering a Barbarian Conquest.


Also, as for the Time Victory being disabled, I understood Erkon's message in the Pre-game thread to be an optional suggestion to retire, say, if someone was getting bored with the game. Erkon seemed to say that you could keep playing past 2050 AD if you thought that you could win. However, some people seem to have taken that message quite literally and did not even try to win at that point. Personally, I would have suggested not putting any restriction on the playing time at all, precisely because the Time Victory option had been disabled. If it were to take someone until the year 3000 AD to figure out how to win a Diplo game, at least they would have spent many years learning how to do it, would have possibly understood more about the related AI dynamics, and likely would have had time for their earlier poor choices of "you have traded with our worst enemies" penalties to have worn off.

I understand how it might not have been Erkon's intention to allow the game to continue past 2050 AD, and in that context, the limitation makes sense. For future games, now that the community is aware what it means to disable a Time Victory, I would hope that in future if this Victory Condition is disabled, we are always allowed to play for as long as we would like to play before winning, losing, or choosing to retire.

In fact, it might make for an interesting variant to leave all Victory Conditions enabled EXCEPT for a Time Victory (and possibly disable a Space Victory, since that victory condition is probably the easiest to achieve if you "just go through the motions" and is also one of the AIs' favoured Victory Conditions). Simply announce in the pre-game thread that the Cow Award will not be awarded that month (to avoid ridiculousness in finish dates just to chase after the Cow) and let us go nuts.
 
Sorry, this is a result of my vanity and obvious abuse of my position. EL is stands for my RL first name and surname. Please forgive me. The intention was to help the player getting some extra pop for the vote, so I'm not pure evil, right? :mischief: People normally don't notice the easter eggs I add. This time I may have been to obvious :lol:

I don't think that revealing your name is an abuse of your position, just an abuse of your personal privacy. But, if you're willing to share your name like that, then you certainly leave yourself open to us guessing it! ;) Although you don't have to confirm our guesses, either.

Let's see... Erkon sounds a lot like Erik.

The "on" is probably the end of a last name ending in either "son" or "sson."

So, let's say Erik Larsson.


Did players find this game easier or harder than a typical Noble game, or just different?

I think that a Terra map is always a bit easier than a "normal" game, and this map setup was no exception. "Knowing" the approximate map layout is a big advantage to the player, and fortunately we had guessed the possible variant of America spawning in North America in the Pre-game Discussion thread, so everyone was prepared for that possibility.

Even if the player settled slowly and allowed Huayna to creep up the coast with cities, we had more land to ourselves than any AI did, which was a nice boon.

The Resource distribution was well-thought out, too. Huayna had a few Resources that he could trade, but you also had access to extras of those Resources, so if you met the other AIs first, you could be the first to trade with them and leave Huayna mostly out of the Resource-trading game.

The Old World AIs did not have too many excess Resources to trade around, so they didn't all have "+2 thanks for sharing your Resources with us" bonuses with each other by the time that you were able to meet them. In fact, several of their duplicate Resources would come late enough in the game for the player to fairly be the one to trade for them (Egypt's Spices required Calendar, Mao's Silks required Calendar, Peter's Furs were far away, and Napoleon's Clams were far away).

It was also nice not to have "too many" Resources to ourselves, so that trading for some of the lacking Resources did play a role in the game.

The "Stone Island" was a neat concept, too--the game is of a low enough difficulty that you could choose to settle it without a major hit to your economy. I chose to forego settling it and thus did not build Oxford University in time enough to speed up my victory. It would have been nicer if the Cow were moved just 1 square closer to that island, though, so that settling on the Stone wouldn't have made for such a marginal city.

The game was certainly harder than a normal one for a person who hasn't played for a Diplomatic Victory very often. However, if you were able to "mentally ignore" the fact that we were all competing for the same victory condition and if you did a bit of research on the forums (such as in the War Academy), chasing a Diplo Victory certainly wasn't much harder on this map than it would be on a random Continents map.
 
The Strategy: Win a Diplomatic Victory
My Method of Achieving said Strategy: Do what I do best--use a Cultural Victory path :culture:

Nice write-up! :goodjob:
Very interesting strategy, since I made the opposite assessment deciding conciously to leave enough religions so that the distant AI would develop rivalries. I am interested how it worked out (in terms of finish date), but since you left that detail conspicuosly absent from your write-up, I assume I will have to wait for results to be published.:sad:
But thanks for the insight into your planning and strategy!

I believe the time limit had to be imposed in order to prevent people holding back victory ad infinitum as they build population. I do not know if it is possible to win a gold medal for score with a very late victory (say 5000AD) and uber-high population, but if it is, I'd rather see the medals decided by "who most successfully executed a sound strategy" rather than "who has the most perserverence for milking".
 
First time I've ever gone for a Diplo victory, so the game was a great learning experience for me.
I managed to become the largest civ (by pop) and build the UN fairly easily, but getting the votes for a win took a couple of centuries!
I adopted HC's Buddism so he was a big supporter as long as I was in his religion.
My only rival for the UN votes was Mansa and his ally Hattie. I made the mistake of trading with everyone inlcuding Hattie and Mansa so I had difficulty getting the rest of the gang to vote for me. Eventually, with experiements in trading, adoption of civcs, (and time) I was able to get Peter and Napolean to vote me the win. Unfortunately it took until 2069!
 
1840AD Diplo Victory

Honestly, not very pleased with my victory despite not being great at Diplo. It was a good lesson though. I'd say my big mistakes were a) not more agressively beelining MM b) not more aggressively spreading my religion. Also, I probably would have won an earlier vote if other AIs did not keep switching their religions back. With such a tech lead I always had something to trade them to switch back to my religion, but it's all a timing thing. Eventually, I had everyone in Conf except Hatsh who was the UN rival.

Another thing with diplo it seems is really choosing your allies correctly. I have difficulty with this and generally try my best to please everyone. I also have trouble reading the information in vanilla CIV compared to the BUG interface in BTS, so it's a bit difficult for me to always understand the state of affairs. I really only played BTS until starting on the GOTMs.

Settled all of my immediate continent as well as the islands to the far east and wonder whored late - really not much else to do anyway and the extra happy resources didn't hurt for trade.

All in all, a fun relaxing game.
 
Nice write-up! :goodjob:
Thanks!

Very interesting strategy, since I made the opposite assessment deciding consciously to leave enough religions so that the distant AI would develop rivalries.

Your approach certainly has its merits, especially that of being able to get to Astronomy that much faster and spam more cities earlier, so that your overseas cities would have more time to grow larger in size. Further, Biology further boosts your domestic population growth, giving you a much greater safety margin of votes.

As it was, I needed 3 AIs to vote for me to barely be able to win, although I managed to get 4 AIs to vote for me, so I would have been safe even without the extra population.

Actually, I was really surprised that Conquistador 63 decided to "sit out" the Diplomatic race. I would have figured that he could have pulled off a really fast Mass Media date, based on the insane tech pace that he tends to display in his games.


I hope that there are enough other submissions (or more comments from people who have already submitted on when they learned Astronomy and on how much they felt it benefited them) so that we can get a better comparison of the merits of grabbing Astronomy with Liberalism versus waiting to grab Radio with Liberalism. In my game, the choice was made for me, because Huayna managed to research (or pop from a Hut) Astronomy by the time that my mediocre tech pace got me to that stage of the game. There's no point in "wasting" Liberalism on a tech that you can trade from a Friendly trading partner. :)

As it was, I didn't get Astronomy until 1080 AD, which meant that most of my overseas cities were still pretty small at the end of the game.

Still, for my strategy, the quantity of newly-founded cities (those without a religion) was far more important than the size of each of them. Thus, it was in 1340 AD that I managed to score the Old World's primary religion of Christianity in one of my overseas cities, with about another 11 "chances" (religionless cities) left remaining to me at that point. Have I given you enough dates to satisfy your curiosity?


Actually, there was an interesting corollary to this game's situation of not being able to get "mutual military struggle" positive diplomatic modifiers--you also could not anger an AI for refusing to join in a war against their Worst Enemy. So, while it was more challenging than simply joining a phony war or two alongside a few war mongerors, the game was slightly easier diplomatically for more peaceful players, as there were less negative modifiers floating about than normal.


I believe someone mentioned that it might have been good to have met the Old World AIs and get close to a vote before the Old World AIs could meet Huayna or vice versa. Does anyone know how The United Nations affects such a situation where some of the AIs don't know each other? For example, if Huayna became your opponent in an election, would that mean that the other AIs would immediately meet him? If someone else became your opponent, would Huayna immediately meet said opponent? Maybe everyone gets contact with everyone else in the world as soon as someone builds The UN? Maybe you can possibly end up having to vote for an "unknown" player?

Since Huayna was the first to Astronomy and had met everyone by the time that voting came around, I didn't really get to find out this nuance. Maybe someone who got The UN early can go back and check their F4 "Glance" screen to see who knows whom both after The UN gets built and after the first Secretary General vote.
 
Does anyone know how The United Nations affects such a situation where some of the AIs don't know each other? For example, if Huayna became your opponent in an election, would that mean that the other AIs would immediately meet him? If someone else became your opponent, would Huayna immediately meet said opponent? Maybe everyone gets contact with everyone else in the world as soon as someone builds The UN? Maybe you can possibly end up having to vote for an "unknown" player?

Good question... perhaps a Worldbuilder test is in order, unless someone already knows the answer.:scan:
 
Good question... perhaps a Worldbuilder test is in order, unless someone already knows the answer.:scan:

I have noticed when playing turtle, that you can swap maps and 'see' the whole world, but you still have to sail over to actually 'meet' someone.

I would imagine the UN is the same. Just because you can vote for someone doesn't mean that you have met them.
 
I have noticed when playing turtle, that you can swap maps and 'see' the whole world, but you still have to sail over to actually 'meet' someone.

I would imagine the UN is the same. Just because you can vote for someone doesn't mean that you have met them.

Its not a situation that would arise very often, either. The AI will seldom build the UN that early, and the human player who builds it that early will usually want to make contact to work on diplomacy. But I'm sure it happens sometimes... I'm pretty sure that like you suggest, playing turtle will not save you from diplomatic defeat. So some mechanism surely exists.
 
retired. Had about 25% of votes, almost double the second best civ had (three of them changed trying to win diplo against me), but couldn't get the others vote for me, I was positive with everyone, but -4 for "you have traded with our worst enemies" with almost every civ,,, so I gave up eventually...

even try to build the army at the end, cause I saw AI does, thinking that maybe the reason why won't sign DP with me, but didn't help :), Napoleon signed it when I had only few warriors, and nobody else would when I had 100 Mechs, 2x stronger army then any...still don't get how should I play to win diplo, maybe not to trade at all, or only with few civs...
 
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