Great Library destruction

[Mongols_rule]

HEY! I just thought of something! If you sell buildings and they go to the barbarians, then I THINK you can use the "switch sides" cheat and play as the barbarians!!

 

[peterval]

I tried this a couple of years ago. It was quite interesting at first because you get to see the boats appearing all over the oceans as the barbarians are born. (By the way you have to let the b’s take a city before changing to civilization zero, otherwise you just get the “you’ve failed” screen.). It gets boring though because the city will only build units. I gave them plenty of money so the chiefs, who of course keep appearing, could buy more cities and settlers. But the new cities would only build units too. I suppose they could eventually conquer the world if you gave them enough money but it would be a pretty boring process. There is no diplomacy so the bug reported in this thread is something different,
Incidentally I am talking about the old dos game here.

 

[GoldBerg]

pikachu told me
here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2329342#post2329342
about
"the infamous pollution bug"

• is this a wellknown bug?
  
• where is the description for this bug here in the forum?
  
• has the bug something to do with the strange future techs of the other ancient civilizations?

 

[GoldBerg]

HEY! I just thought of something! If you sell buildings and they go to the barbarians, then I THINK you can use the "switch sides" cheat and play as the barbarians!!

with freeware program cheat tool cived 1.4 (from 1993)
( sid meier civilization for windows civ dos 1 civdos game editor version cived ver. vers 1.4 )
you can switch within CivDOS Games
your tribe, your money, your techs and difficulty level ( chieftain up to empereor )
afterwards in the game...
( and 100 other things ) -

it works great with win3.*** | win95 | win98(se) for sure -
...maybe with any other windows version too?

...a fine cheat program with a comfortable GUI.

...look at the attached image for screen...

the complete setup-files are in the download able attached ZiP - file...

 

[GoldBerg]

... ...
Maybe I should try to trigger this bug at a lower level to test if it is possible to talk with them? That could be interesting.

that wouldn't work because there is no interface/screen in the game for "atilla".

if you play the barbarians (by cheating with cived.1.4.)
(you just can play them if they own/did conquer a city in the normal or cheated game otherwise you have to cheat them a city first to change to barbarian leader... otherwise the game starts with " your civilization ... blablabla ... Atilla will be back! ..." and 'finito'...)

you will see that barbarians can't act much (with the city screen for example...)!

 

[Pikachu]

"the infamous pollution bug"

• is this a wellknown bug?
  
• where is the description for this bug here in the forum?
  
• has the bug something to do with the strange future techs of the other ancient civilizations?

Read the last posts in this thread to get an explanation: Pollution bug

that wouldn't work because there is no interface/screen in the game for "atilla".

if you play the barbarians (by cheating with cived.1.4.)
(you just can play them if they own/did conquer a city in the normal or cheated game otherwise you have to cheat them a city first to change to barbarian leader... otherwise the game starts with " your civilization ... blablabla ... Atilla will be back! ..." and 'finito'...)

you will see that barbarians can't act much (with the city screen for example...)!

You are right, it didn’t work, but with this bug it seemed like the barbarians could do a lot more than they use too. Like acquiring technology, signing peace treaties, changing government etc. It could be interesting to find out what really happened to them. Did they become a normal civ, or was it just my advisors that somehow started to report strange things about them? The game were I recreated this bug was really unstable and crashed all the time, so it was hard to find out much about it. Maybe you will give it a try?

 

[GoldBerg]

... ...
You are right, it didn’t work, but with this bug it seemed like the barbarians could do a lot more than they use too. Like acquiring technology, signing peace treaties, changing government etc. It could be interesting to find out what really happened to them.
Did they become a normal civ, or was it just my advisors that somehow started to report strange things about them? The game were I recreated this bug was really unstable and crashed all the time, so it was hard to find out much about it. Maybe you will give it a try?

i found out more things:

- the pollution affects just your / my cities - not the opponents.
- knowledge is frozen - even with libraries and bigger cities and democracy you need an eternity to develop a new technology your own.
- all opponents are at war with you and won't make peace if you are not at their will...
- if a hut reveals 'barbarians' they are always FULL count (as much as possible fields)
- the civilization SCORE is awful LOW - 3 % - it looks like everything is total messed up - the most i wonder that the game is running stable on my machine...

it's not just a "Pollution Bug" -
it's something like a "Worst Case Bug" ...

at no point of time in this savegame the BARBARiANS are a 'civilization' -
the barbarians have no cities conquered within the game... maybe JUST the moment they destroy accidently the Great Lib (tested while cheating and tried to playing the barbarians)
but - next point -
if YOU (romans) do 'interact' with the BARBARiANS -
every action that causes an info-announcement this info acts like YOU (romans) are "the other civilization", sometimes you get double information what barbarians do and what you ("The Romans") have done...

i think it is simply kind of a savegame error, no game bug.
.
.

i cheat the game with the money cheat and fight the pollution 24/7 (this is work)
look the results in the
cheated_bug-game.zip (51.5 KB) - ~ YEAR 600
attached.

 

[GoldBerg]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=42973

The pollution bug
happens when you develope future tech 60-70.

I assume it is FT64 that causes the bug.
It is because technologies are represented as a binary string
and probably 8 bytes are reservec for FTs.

when you develop FT 65 it flips a bit at a memory location
reserved for something else
probably counting pollution.

there is no way stopping runaway pollution.
it grows exponentially and will cover everything in a few turns.
... ...

well - garboka1 may be right -
but - HOW did it come / did you do it
that this game has the pollution bug
AND this
"great library destroyed / conquered by barbarians" bug???
...this looks like true art!
.
.

looks like
1.
thru' the great library destroyment barbarians get every tech of 2 civilizations - presumely the ROMANS ("You") and another one.
2.
every other civilization did get high developed techs instead the old ones.
every tribe other ones - the babylonians other high techs than the germans for example...
3.
anyway - some civs may have MORE future techs up to 60-70
or
it's counted in the game just as "above 60-70"... well...

...
so the great library destroyment maybe did/do cause "the pollution bug"...

 

[Pikachu]

Thanks GoldBerg for your excellent research effort.

This was clearly not just the pollution bug. I don’t know exactly what happened, just that a lot of things suddenly changed. It happened immediately after I destroyed the GL, but apparently there are some other criteria needed to trigger the bug as well.

It looks like you are doing well in your savegame. How much extra money did you give yourself?

Anyway, I have to clarify a small misunderstanding. The savegame I posted in this thread ran perfectly stable, but as you discovered the barbarians never got any cities in that game. I wanted to find out what the barbarians could do in this bug situation if they had cities, so I started a new game and tried to trigger the bug after I had given the barbarians a few cities. That game turned out to be very unstable, so I didn’t find out as much as I wanted to.

 

[GoldBerg]

Thanks GoldBerg for your excellent research effort

well - i play civ.1 since 1991 - a man who plays 13 years from time to time the same strategy game
(just tried on net freeciv for a while an did HATE civ.2 for it's total game changes)
must be

• stupid or
• kind of a peanut counter or
• simply a civ.1 fanatic.

This was clearly not just the pollution bug. I don’t know exactly what happened, just that a lot of things suddenly changed.

i think so too. but maybe it happened domino-wise - first a savegame error / game bug when barbarians did destroy the GL AND (maybe) did conquer that tribe same time. maybe the barbarians did become THAT gone tribe that moment while the game was giving them technologies -
in THAT case the barbarians are something like a "unsupported ghost civilization"
and this might cause the civ programs "pollution bug" by changing parameters that should be not touched by the digits before or after.

It looks like you are doing well in your savegame. How much extra money did you give yourself?

i did have to give myself 3 times 24999 bucks to buy some bombers, build some tempels and banks and so on to get the situation a little under control.
i had to 'storm' 3 babylonian/german cities (using bombers and phalanxes ) for WRiTiNG and so on...
after that building DiPLOMATES and bought the next cities to get more technologies...
with every city MORE the problems did rise with the pollution, but it did effect just my cities - if you look at the other tribes there is no pollution if they have enough distance to your cities!!!
so the pollution bug effects just YOUR civilization and YOU are causing severe and drought and meltdown.

so i build many many many settler units to fight down pollution 24/7 and using the settler game cheat (using command like 'cleanup pollution' up to 7 times at 1 game round by -give order- -take away order- -give order- and so on to get faster rid of pollution)

... ... ... I wanted to find out what the barbarians could do in this bug situation if they had cities, so I started a new game and tried to trigger the bug after I had given the barbarians a few cities. That game turned out to be very unstable, so I didn’t find out as much as I wanted to.

the thing i don't understand is how you can "trigger the bug" - with a hex editor?

in my opinion -just guessing- the barbarians would become a ghost civilization -even 'powered' with cities-
so you wouldn't be able "to talk with atilla" and so on -
but they would (-like 'we have seen'-) *talk* with other tribes / Ai's within the games 'mathematics'/program.

i presume: the barabrians would even build a spaceship if they could conquer the technologies to do so!

.
.
.
btw.
til now i didn't find a working map editor *boo-hoo*... do you know a working one?
do you know the excel-based editor and if it works?
that one with the F1 and F2 keys within the game didn't work after the HEX CODE changes suggested...
.
.
.
wow:
this thread is # 2 by viewings
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16&daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=views

 

[Pikachu]

i think so too. but maybe it happened domino-wise - first a savegame error / game bug when barbarians did destroy the GL AND (maybe) did conquer that tribe same time. maybe the barbarians did become THAT gone tribe that moment while the game was giving them technologies -
in THAT case the barbarians are something like a "unsupported ghost civilization"
and this might cause the civ programs "pollution bug" by changing parameters that should be not touched by the digits before or after.

It was not a savegame error. I never started this game from a savegame file. I played the whole game in one go (I find it very hard to stop playing in the middle of an interesting game. I suppose you are familiar with that problem ).

It was me who destroyed the Great Library (invaded a size 1 city, didn’t check that it had a wonder). No civilization was destroyed that turn. I think I had destroyed one or two before though, so it might be a vacant civ if they don’t respawn immediately. But I think they do respawn immediately, don’t they?

the thing i don't understand is how you can "trigger the bug" - with a hex editor?

I started a new game, built the GL in a border city, waited for the AI to conquer it, then reconquered it and repeated the procedure until the city was destroyed. Of course I starved the population to speed up the process. This didn’t always work though. There must be another criteria to trigger the bug too, but I don’t know what that criteria is. Anyway, I successfully retriggered the bug after a few tries. That time the lazy AI didn’t want to capture my GL city, but at least the barbarians managed to capture it after a while. I was ready to recapture and destroy it, but to my surprise the bug was triggered right after the barbarians captured the city without destroying it. Apparently giving it to the barbarians had the same effect as destroying it.

i presume: the barabrians would even build a spaceship if they could conquer the technologies to do so!

Now that would be cool!

til now i didn't find a working map editor *boo-hoo*... do you know a working one?
do you know the excel-based editor and if it works?
that one with the F1 and F2 keys within the game didn't work after the HEX CODE changes suggested...

Sorry, I don’t know any editors. I never cheat.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Which is a pity.
Wouldn't it be great to let the barbarians build a great empire with just one goal: destroy everything!

Hey!, that's my job!

 

[Licentia]

This same thing happened to me once.

I can remember laughing as Alexander threatened me, asking to give him technology "3"

Actually, I think it was one of the GOTM's we had here.

But it was a pretty funny experience.

lol !!!

This thread is hillarious.

 

[Licentia]

Nope, Mac = land barb destroy all, those who get off from boats try to conquer cities.

That's been my experience.

You guys say that Barbs will develop cities. What, with settlers? I've never seen a barbarian settler before.

 

[Licentia]

You are right GenghisK. It turns out that land barbarians destroy large cities too. How could I not know this? I guess I am not really a civfanatic after all.

Repent, and play Civ for 10 hours straight each day for the next 7 days. Then perhaps you will be forgiven.

 

[GoldBerg]

lol !!!
This thread is hillarious.

...try the attached file of the game - it will happen.

 

[BlackBetsy]

This is an old thread...but this has happened to me before. I was playing an emperor game and the barbs took an undefended size 2 city. I was busy doing other things and let the barbs have the city while defending against the units that they produced.

After a while, the Barbs started learning techs! The Barbs would learn Alphabet and then Pottery and then Masonry, but then would repeat the process...they never gained anything but those techs. I wonder what the Barbs's tech slider was set at? I let them stay around until I launched my 50k spaceship simply because I was amused by them.

Which makes me think...One of the things I don't like about Civ III is that the Barbs just raid cities and don't keep them. I'd love to see Civ IV have the Barbs take cities and form civilizations. Perhaps militaristic and expansionist. Give them a kind of Barbarian Great Library where they get all techs owned by all civs as free techs and get some settlers. This would have a very historic impact. After all the Russians are the Rus - Viking nomads who took over towns in (what is now) Russia and stayed.

 

[s300pmu1]

Wonder what happens if you change a barb unit to settler by an editor... gonna try it once I have time for that

 

[dirtylou]

i have seen red settlers, but they dont do anything. maybe its because i use the civnet version. (which is the only way to go)

They don't start building cities. They just conquer a city then build units they send to conquer other ones. They can't build settlers.

 

[GoldBerg]

This is an old thread...
...

...just did read this thread ...again.
Great fun.

...with today's knowledge about the 'game edits and it's digit|logics'
some of the questions should be 'ready to be solved'.

For example:

i have seen red settlers... ...