Great People for the 1.18 civilizations

[Steb]

I made a spreadsheet to collect suggestions of Great People names for the new civilizations. Please feel free to add names to it, ideally with a wikipedia link and a short note to make it easy for others to understand the suggestion. Be mindful of changing or overwriting content added by other people.

The spreadsheet includes all new civilizations as well as certain existing civilizations that may end up being affected by the new additions. For instance, all Swedish names after AD 1252 need to be removed from the Viking list, which therefore needs to filled with additional Great People from other Scandinavian countries. Fortunately someone already did that, so it's a good list to look at as an example.

 

[trexeric]

I did the Swedish and Viking lists, so if there's any questions or disputes there, I can answer them. I think it's important that Sweden especially has a good-sized selection, since their UP relates to GP generation, and I've always thought that the Vikings should have a wider Medieval selection than they currently do (especially in GGs).

I also worked on the Hittite list last night. I'm not entirely pleased with it, but I think that they deserve to have their own list, even if its a small one. Had to resort to using some mythological names, like the current Mayan list does.

 

[Steb]

I also worked on the Hittite list last night. I'm not entirely pleased with it, but I think that they deserve to have their own list, even if its a small one. Had to resort to using some mythological names, like the current Mayan list does.

Yeah mythological figures for the Hittites seems acceptable. Good job on your lists, they're great!

 

[stormogulen]

I checked the Swedish list and think it is very nice!

-I do think the merchant list needs a Wallenberg though. Probably André Oscar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Oscar_Wallenberg), Marcus Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marcus_Wallenberg_(1899–1982)), or both. Everyone in Sweden are small fish in comparison to the Wallenbergs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallenberg_family).

-Johanna Maria Lind is almost always referred to as Jenny Lind rather than her birth name. I'm not sure what kind of naming rules we follow, but I think using Jenny Lind would be a bit more clear.

-Also, maybe it has a bit too many kings. It seems a bit weird from an immersion perspective to order rulers around. I think Leoreth has mentioned something about this at some point.

-Fun fact, there was a nice book released in 2009 about the 100 most important Swedes in history according to the authors. I referred to it quite a lot when I made the proposal I posted. You can see the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiens_100_viktigaste_svenskar

 

[Dominus the Mentat]

Althrough this thread is for the new civilizations that will come in the 1.18 version of the game I suggest to add the old civilizations that doesn't have enough great people names like Egypt, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Congo to help them have more great people names in the game. Egypt, for example, have names until its conquest by Rome, lacking names from islamic age until the global age.

 

[TwoF]

Has it already been confirmed that Rus' will be reborn as Ukraine?
What I mean is that if this does not happen, then we still need to make an additional effort to find more ancient great people for artists and engineers.

 

[trexeric]

I checked the Swedish list and think it is very nice!

-I do think the merchant list needs a Wallenberg though. Probably André Oscar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Oscar_Wallenberg), Marcus Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marcus_Wallenberg_(1899–1982)), or both. Everyone in Sweden are small fish in comparison to the Wallenbergs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallenberg_family).

Makes sense! I was definitely less in my element for the merchant section (as well as a few others) - my proposals were generally based on their products, so Kamprad = IKEA, Gabrielsson = Volvo, Persson = H&M... and then one Nobel (Memorial) Prize in Economics represented in Myrdal, and then I think I stole Kreuger from your list. At the time I didn't want to overinflate the Global Era merchant count, but I think it could fit a sixth one if you want to put one of the Wallenbergs in there.

-Johanna Maria Lind is almost always referred to as Jenny Lind rather than her birth name. I'm not sure what kind of naming rules we follow, but I think using Jenny Lind would be a bit more clear.

"Johanna Maria" was inherited from the old Vikings list, only reason I kept it like that. I think generally the idea is to use their Swedish name (like how for the Vikings the names are generally in Old Norse), but there's some exceptions to this, like I put Olaus Petri instead of Olaf Persson, since Olaus Petri is that much more recognizable.

-Also, maybe it has a bit too many kings. It seems a bit weird from an immersion perspective to order rulers around. I think Leoreth has mentioned something about this at some point.

Maybe a few too many to bump up the count in a few places (like I could not for the life of me think of another Industrial Era Swedish GG), but generally my thought was that, if it feels weird that they would not be represented in the game in some way, then this would be the way to represent them. So that counts for Magnus Ladulås, Gustav Vasa, Kristina, Karl XII, at least. And Gustav Vasa and Kristina were on the old Vikings list, so I guess it can't be too strict a rule? But if there are too many then we can definitely cut some.

-Fun fact, there was a nice book released in 2009 about the 100 most important Swedes in history according to the authors. I referred to it quite a lot when I made the proposal I posted. You can see the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiens_100_viktigaste_svenskar

This is a good list! There's definitely a lot more I wanted to add, but was constrained by a number limit, and the other things I wanted to represent - like, I wanted to have a good number of Nobel Prize winners (I tried to have notable ones anyway, like Karlfeldt as the only posthumous literature winner, etc.) and I wanted to try and even out certain categories and eras, so some have a bit more stretches than others.

 

[stormogulen]

I mean Jenny Lind is what she is called in Sweden as well. It is also how she was known in her own lifetime. Personally, as a Swede, I've known that name since elementary school. On the other hand, my initial reaction seeing the name Johanna Maria Lind was "who the heck is that?".

I thought Kreuger would be one of my more controversial suggestions since his business empire was a total scam and his life ended in tragedy. On the other hand it was such a monumental swindle that it somehow seemed wrong not to include him.

 

[trexeric]

Yeah, makes sense to change it to Jenny Lind. Like I said, I just kept it from the old Vikings list, but I'll go in and change it now (unless anybody objects).

And yeah after reading up on Kreuger, I thought it was an interesting and unique choice for GM, so I ended up going with him. I'll just go in and add Marcus Wallenberg too, though.

 

[Dracosolon]

I think Leoreth generally prefers birth names over aliases. I had the same reaction over seeing "Henri Grouès" among French Great Prophets, checking out Wikipedia and recognizing the very famous in France Abbé Pierre.

But then it's not a rule universally enforced. For example, it's Mark Twain, not Samuel Clemens.

 

[Leoreth]

Please do not assume consistency in the existing namelists, they were partially inherited from elsewhere and compiled by different people.

I think wikipedia is a good guideline to use here, and in that sense I would prefer the name stated first in the article introduction body (not the title). In this case it would be Johanna Maria Lind, Samuel Clemens and Abbé Pierre. Although if the native language wikipedia handles it differently that would be a compelling argument to use its version.

If there are inconsistencies in the current list it is better to fix them along the way.

 

[WhiteEyes]

I'll help with splitting Javanese and Malay names

However, I got some questions

1. A Sumatran great person who lived under Dutch occupation (19-20th century), would they be Malay or Javanese?
2. Should the figures of eastern islands such as Celebes and Moluccas included as Javanese? They are part of current Indonesia but culturally they are neither Malay or Javanese.

 

[Leoreth]

My intention is to have Java evolve into the modern Indonesian state and Malays evolve into the modern Malaysian state.