Greetings to all!

[mystikx21]

If Thal is doing mostly data edits first, then modifying units and buildings, policies and terrain to some extent, tech reveals, and some leaders (unique units/buildings) or wonders is pretty easy (and probably wouldn't require updates to CivUp in most cases). Some, but not all, of that doesn't appear to have changed very much at all in BNW, which suggests a need for some modification without much debate. There's some obvious issues with trade routes and ideologies and specialists that may be a call for immediate discussion. Completely new motions.

If integrating those kinds of changes with more complicated UI changes will take a while, I'd say we need a strategy for dealing with the UI and lua changes. I'd suggest we break up CivUp into segments so it can be done in the background while the easy stuff gets laid out (and can be verified as working before any bugs appear). The alternative is waiting for different bits to get cleaned up and tested by one person. Might be safer that way, but burning out Thal is not very fun.

 

[Thalassicus]

I thought of something else we can work on - beliefs! They are incredibly easy data edits which are already well-established from the previous expansion. I never really got around to adding belief diversity because I was working backwards. Now that I'm starting with gameplay stuff first, I can give us more belief variety right away.

 

[Seek]

I thought of something else we can work on - beliefs! They are incredibly easy data edits which are already well-established from the previous expansion. I never really got around to adding belief diversity because I was working backwards. Now that I'm starting with gameplay stuff first, I can give us more belief variety right away.

This sounds good.

Also: Barbarians (as previously mentioned), Opportunities (Dennis said that it will be easier to implement these, is that true?), bonus AI experience, and City-State capture bonuses (though these last two might require a lot of coding, iirc) sound like excellent items for early adoption to me. Oh, and some of the basic WWGD AI edits would be very welcome as well!

I better stop now before I list everything in GEM here..

 

[Thalassicus]

Opportunities (Dennis said that it will be easier to implement these, is that true?)

He did? I haven't been following the news very closely.

One AI thing I'm very happy about is they actually capture citystates! They did that for the first year of civ, then didn't for a few years, now do again. Some internal AI stuff changed in there. CS capture bonuses will really help the AIs that do so.

 

[Seek]

He did? I haven't been following the news very closely.

Yes, apparently there a random event system implemented in the Civil War scenario.

Edit: re: AI CS capture - That's great news!

 

[Ahriman]

I'm working on a post-patch but pre-BNW vanilla game, and can definitely confirm that AIs conquer city states. Rome and the Huns have gone on quite the rampage, and are much more powerful than me and reached the industrial era before me. [Immortal difficulty might have something to do with it too.]

 

[mitsho]

The "easier Random events"-comment I think was more related to the special promotion of the Kris Swordmen which does exist apparently in the Civil War Scenario (the promotion, not the Kris). Not sure if that applies to opportunities at all.

Regarding barbarians, can we make camps harder to conquer, but giving a reward similar to a goody hut/Shoshone pathfinder choie. That'd be cool I think. When we're with City States, make all city states similar to religious one in that they give + special yield (experience for military, science for maritimes, more gold for mercantile).

 

[Thalassicus]

Barb camps in the mod provide a defense bonus, and more reward when captured.

 

[Ahriman]

City states giving gold seems weird to me.... I'm so used to the idea that city states are something we invest gold in to get other stuff.

 

[albie_123]

CS rewards are a must. I haven't yet got BNW (damn region release dates) but it looks like they haven't addressed the fact that CS's are almost always better left untouched, even when going for conquest.

On a side note, great to see this forum and mod back in action. Certainly has come a long way since the original patch to improvements, and if it weren't for VEM and GEM, I probably would have stopped playing a long time ago.

 

[mitsho]

I know, but I want even more of those goody huts

@Ahriman, I mean when we first meet them. They give you a small gift.

 

[Ahriman]

@Ahriman, I mean when we first meet them. They give you a small gift.

Ah! I see. It would be fine to change the bonuses, but it doesn't seem like a high priority issue. Faith is meaningful because early game faith is a very different thing than faith a few dozen turns later, but that is less true for other yields.

 

[Kakafika]

Welcome back!

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Thal, I can't tell you how great it is to see you're back. As you say, there seem to be a lot of fantastic new things in the expansion as it stands, but I concur that some things can still be improved! I'm especially keen to see how you get your "Opportunities" system to interact with several of the new features (it'd be fantastic, for example, if you have a "Diplomatic Incident" event resulting from one of your assigned diplomats ;-) ).

One other thing I'm hoping you might be able to achieve (assuming the developers haven't done it already), is to give certain City-States much higher levels of aggression, & thus make City-State vs City State Wars more likely. That will make Terra Maps much more interesting, with the addition of Archeology!

Anyway, I'll be following this forum *very* closely over the coming weeks ! Sorry to hear about all the crap you've been going through lately, but I certainly hope things are much better now!

Aussie.

 

[goodolarchie]

Welcome back Thal! GEM was amazing, breathed hundreds more hours into the last expansion for me. After spending today cringing at the default diplo overview screen, I can't wait to see what you cook up the new CEP!

 

[Dunkah]

Great to see you back.

Can't wait for all of the discussions to start up again!

Careful upping the barbs. That could have a bad effect on Trade Routes. Noticed Early Income was back to very small amounts, long periods of time where I was starting to strugle wondering if my economy could take anothe scout/warrior before launching that first trade route.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I thought of something else we can work on - beliefs! They are incredibly easy data edits which are already well-established from the previous expansion. I never really got around to adding belief diversity because I was working backwards. Now that I'm starting with gameplay stuff first, I can give us more belief variety right away.

Is there any chance of looking at modifying Tenets too? Some of them (especially Universal Healthcare) are just so boring IMHO. I had an idea of Universal Health giving different bonuses to hospitals, depending on which Ideology you're in (maybe Happiness or Production for Order, Tourism or Gold for Freedom & Hit Points or a Medic Promotion for Autocracy). Just a thought!

Aussie.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Another Tenet worth changing, IMHO, is Nationalism. It really should have an impact on Culture-which helps the Autocratic State to fend off foreign Tourism!

EDIT: Not vitally important, but is there any way to change the name of Tourism to something more appropriate?

Aussie.

 

[mystikx21]

We had a small debate on changing the name to prestige, but they've got hotels as a tourism multiplier now. We'd have to rename those as well.

 

[Thalassicus]

Tourism doesn't strike me as odd or unusual. Tourists come to see museums, and more come if we have trade, open borders, hotels, airports, and so on. It makes sense to me. What makes you think of changing it?


@Aussie_Lurker
Tenets are policies. They called them a fancy name, but it's the same thing. I'll revise all policies later.