Grigori : Brainstorm Thread

[Breez]

If they have a history of Militia would it make sense to have a UU that was a 0 attack and higher than normal defense that had a zero move. Say for example a 0/5 or 0/6 with a zero move that has a +100% city Defense. Maybe later an upgrade to that unit that made it a 0/8 or 0/9

Would there be any way to limit one per city?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Influence Driven Wars could be a nice unique mechanic for them. it even has emergency militia draft. could be pretty flavourful and fun.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

If they have a history of Militia would it make sense to have a UU that was a 0 attack and higher than normal defense that had a zero move. Say for example a 0/5 or 0/6 with a zero move that has a +100% city Defense. Maybe later an upgrade to that unit that made it a 0/8 or 0/9

Would there be any way to limit one per city?

Why? Historically, militia have served as the primary means of waging war, composing the majority of a country's militaries. It wasn't until well into the gunpowder age that permanent standing armies replaced militia for the most part, and even then you have comparitives like the American National Guard. In terms of FFH, most of the units in it would be composed of militia-men.

I see what you're trying to get, but you'll need a better reason or mechanic. All you'd be doing is creating a garrison unit for defense, not warding off war-mongering.

 

[Valkrionn]

I like the Diverse trait too, even though only for the races. Like, no UU of outside. That's what I mean to do in my own mod (maybe you were thinking I was going to do it like in the TweakMod, Valk?). I don't know how the race is chosen in the TweakMod but I plan to do it function of the surroundings of the city. Forests->Elves, Hills->Dwarves, Jungle->Lizards, etc. However, I still don't know if it will be for the Kurios or for the Grigori. I'm thinking lately that the Grigori are more in "need" of a new mechanic than the Kurios...

As for the worldspell idea Valkrionn is talking about, see here.

Also, I gave them the Humanist civ trait, making them agnostics (opposing uniqueCult/Intolerant leaders, which is an innovation of my mod too) and giving them access right from the start to the Humanism civic.

(I didn't read the whole thread yet, only the last page )

The racial idea is fine with me. Yeah, I thought you were going to go with UU's. The only thing I'd add, is for Adventurers with a racial to be able to upgrade to a UU for that civ.

 

[Opera]

Hmm, I don't know how you would do that, though...

 

[Rystic]

I like the Diverse trait too, even though only for the races. Like, no UU of outside. That's what I mean to do in my own mod (maybe you were thinking I was going to do it like in the TweakMod, Valk?). I don't know how the race is chosen in the TweakMod but I plan to do it function of the surroundings of the city.

It has a 40% to trigger naturally, and 70% if a Grigori Museum is in the city. It's 50%/80% for Great People and Adventurers.

I still don't know if it will be for the Kurios or for the Grigori. I'm thinking lately that the Grigori are more in "need" of a new mechanic than the Kurios...

I think the Kuriotates shouldn't get it. Yes, their society is diverse, but their alignment is Good. Would Orcs or Dark Elves migrate to that in massive numbers? The kind of diversity I imagine can only exist in Grigori society. Cassiel is an iconic character; a figure who stands against oppression. The evil races have nothing to fear from him, or even from the good races that live among the Grigori. Elves fight alongside orcs, or dwarves. They abandon their old ways. Especially for orcs, the idea of a Good society would turn them off from migrating to the Kuriotates. As diverse at it is, it's not the nation you escape to from oppressive leadership.

 

[Opera]

What you said about the Kurios makes sense, at least a bit. I'm not really convinced by the sound of it though. But, as I said, I'm more thinking to do this for the grigori especially because they would need it more than any other civilization.

 

[Imuratep]

You could simulate the migrations by adding the unhappy citizens (and perhaps sick citizens too as those are occurring more often) of other civilizations to Grigori cities that have not yet reached their happiness/ health limit.
Or you could just say that a certain / relation health:/) relation increases the probability of immigrations. That is if all cities in Calabim empire have 50 and 50 in total and all Grigori cities have 50 and 50 in total the probability is 0%, but for every surplus the probability increases by 1% so if the Grigori city has 60 and 50 the probability is 10%.
That would encourage the Grigori to found some new settlements that are open for those who want to escape oppression or malady or to construct buildings that increase happiness more often than other civilizations.

 

[Iceciro]

Wow, I almost just asked what happens when they get Social Order or Unyielding Order up in a city, then realized this is the Grigori.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Rhyse and Fall has an immigration effect for the Americans which allows them to rapidly gain population to catch up and match the world even with such a late start. IIRC, it's largely based on other players unhappiness/unhealthiness as well. Perhaps someone could look at that coding?



Something that might be helpful for the Grigori might be a unique specialist just for them. Something like a priest specialist with different yields (beakers and culture rather than commerce and hammers), but most importantly it would provide Adventurer GPP. Call it Philosopher or something.. One of the challenges of the Grigori is, of course, GPP polution, and only two or three buildings (including the Grigori palace) produce it. So a Grigori specialist (perhaps enabled by the Grigori Museum and Grigori Tavern?) could be a simple addition.

 

[Iceciro]

IIRC in Fall Further adventurers do not use GPP anymore, so there is no pollution.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

That must be in Fall Further Plus. I'm playing the latest build and patch B, and it's there.

 

[Valkrionn]

IIRC in Fall Further adventurers do not use GPP anymore, so there is no pollution.

Only Fall Further Plus, and Orbis. Fall Further still uses GPP.

 

[Iceciro]

then they need to eat that change. Makes Adventurers a bonus and not an almost-penalty.

 

[Tasunke]

immigration and militia draft seem like nice mechanics for the Grigori

maybe even non-adventurer units cost one extra gold in supply (not in maintanence, just on expeditions), yet adventurers all get the strong promotion.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

What, if anything, of what we already have should we focus on? Like the Grigori one of those similar ideas? If any have promise, we can start outlining them in more than general ideas. Figuring out the Grigori Hall of Wonders, or something.


One theme I think I like increasingly more is the idea that the Grigori can grow increasingly strong/varied over time. The immigration/multi-racial UU idea allows that because you have to branch out in other civ's specialties to take advantage of it, and the Grigori Hall we were discussing earlier also got better with time and effort. I feel you should have to work at them to expand the benefits, and not just get it for free.

One suggested change on a previous suggestion is for a(nother) unique wonder for the Grigori, one that grants the the Immigration trait upon completion. Presumably the Statue of Liberty from vanilla Civ but with a different name/slightly altered art, representing the Grigori state opening up its doors for widescale immigration as opposed to human refugees who don't go to the Eloheim.

"The Statue of Refuge", available at Philosophy, requires Harbor, 600 hammers, +25% production with copper, +25% production with marble?

 

[Imuratep]

Generally a neat idea but I don't think Harbors should be necessary as IMHO that's too close to the real World Statue of Liberty and emigration is not necessarily linked with the sea. Instead you should be connected to an opponent's trading network to be able to receive immigrants from an opponent as certainly noone will immigrate if he has to walk through dangerous unexplored terrain especially with all those dangerous animals in FF. That way you would certainly be encouraged to use coastal cities as those are the easiest way to get connected to their trading network, but it is not obligatory.
The wonder IMHO should be largely distributed to the early tech tree as it is quite powerful. Perhaps Philosophy as tech requirement and Marble OR Copper OR Gold as a ressource requirement.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Generally a neat idea but I don't think Harbors should be necessary as IMHO that's too close to the real World Statue of Liberty and emigration is not necessarily linked with the sea. Instead you should be connected to an opponent's trading network to be able to receive immigrants from an opponent as certainly noone will immigrate if he has to walk through dangerous unexplored terrain especially with all those dangerous animals in FF. That way you would certainly be encouraged to use coastal cities as those are the easiest way to get connected to their trading network, but it is not obligatory.
The wonder IMHO should be largely distributed to the early tech tree as it is quite powerful. Perhaps Philosophy as tech requirement and Marble OR Copper OR Gold as a ressource requirement.

Point on Harbor, though I was thinking mostly in terms of how harbors are the main point of entry for travel in general, because sea transportation is in such bulk. Still, would be bad on a no-ocean map. No real need for it, I suppose, since the idea was to have some sort of building that could represent taking in and supporting masses of people initially. (Could be any sort of food storage as well, or just leave it be.) Like I said, the name could be changed, but the idea is for a symbol of immigration. Which is what the SoL is.

Resource requirement-wise, I think that having materials be boosters rather than requirements is a bit better. It should be possible to build it regardless of your starting position (and I've had starts with none of those), but the materials make it easier.

 

[Tasunke]

I think should use the Kong Miao graphic and be called "Hall of Tolerance" which adds the Immigration trait, (as well as +1 culture per trade route -> in the city its built in)

I think, in addition to immigrants from foreign population, the Immigration trait should add +1 culture for each town

 

[Xnao]

why not give them benefits from unique features?

allow them to destroy them to strike a blow at god worship?

or holding one gives them a benefit or trait?

or even an increased adventurer spawn, perhaps even from the feature