Has the AI become cuddly?

[Horizons]

Nowadays I am getting bombarded with 'let's be friends' requests from all and sundry. It's like the direct opposite of the pure hatred in previous pre-patch iterations. Now instead of coveting my lands they all want friendly relations.

Civ5 early game feels like one big love-fest.

 

[Scios]

Civ5 early game feels like one big love-fest.

I have seen better relations AS LONG AS THERE IS SPACE BETWEEN MYSELF AND THE MURDERING PSYCOPATHS.

 

[Save_Ferris]

Civ5 early game feels like one big love-fest.

They will either backstab you or chain-denounce you because you stood up against Hiwatha's demand for 2000 gold.

 

[Keejus]

^Well, don't friend Hiawatha, obviously.

 

[Putmalk]

I like it, to be honest. There's almost no reason for nations to be at odds to start a game. Diplomacy should be crafted through actions, not random hostility. (really, what were all those AI pissed off about?)

But it does seem to me as if there is no reason to friend the AI, just abuse them for cash. Which is a glaring exploit and should be fixed in a diplomacy overhaul.

 

[swmaniac]

Heck No!

I just played a game (Tiny, Prince, Great Plains) with Siam, Rome and Songhai as the AI; myself as Russia. Songhai DoW'd and then Warrior rushed me. Note that this was a defensive war after an unprovoked attack. I could barely (for all my gold + luxurys) get Rome to come help (they did nothing but send a scout). I eventually conquered the Songhai with a counter Swordsmen rush and puppeted both their cities. Then Siam denounced me, so I Long-Sword rushed him and conquered his empire. Then I just conquered Rome for the domination victory.

Songhai backstabbed me out of no-where; I was denounced for KOing a pure warmonger. The AI has gotten SMARTER, not nicer.

The first like 30 turns were a great big friendship fest, then Songhai backstabbing me destroyed the peace.

 

[bronzeager]

eh gotta expect the warmongers to backstab right?

in my (pre patch) game last night, though, Hiwatha did it out of nowhere even though we were the best of friends. he settled a random city near my borders though...i think that set it off.

 

[swmaniac]

eh gotta expect the warmongers to backstab right?

in my (pre patch) game last night, though, Hiwatha did it out of nowhere even though we were the best of friends. he settled a random city near my borders though...i think that set it off.

But the thing was that he wasn't near my lands nor did I have any resources he wanted. He just wanted me out of the game. This is also the first time I've been backstabbed on any level.

He also seemed to be rather intelligent in his ability to decide to fight me. I had a warrior and a scout; he had, I believe, about 8 warriors. He had just over 4 times my military strength; my weakness was his reason for war in the diplo screen. Now granted, he was absolutely horrible at actually fighting the war - I lost one unit (the scout, because I did something stupid) in the entire conflict and shredded his army, but he did know exactly when to attack me for me to have a monumental "Oh crap! I might actually lose to the AI" moment.

 

[Samuil]

Yeah, enjoy the AI friendship until Japan back stabs you with 10 units on your borders in early game... And their unique ability means they kick a** even when severely damaged...
The message that came with the declaration of war was in the lines of:
You should never trusted me...
What saved me was probably the strategic point where I placed my city (which the AI failed to recommend), and Japan could only attack through one pass to the south and one to the north, meaning splitting his troops in two, and going in one by one...
The only game where a friend did not back stab me was surprisingly Montezuma!
He was my strongest rival, and yet he remained friendly with me throughout the game...

 

[Orionche]

But the thing was that he wasn't near my lands nor did I have any resources he wanted. He just wanted me out of the game. This is also the first time I've been backstabbed on any level.

He also seemed to be rather intelligent in his ability to decide to fight me. I had a warrior and a scout; he had, I believe, about 8 warriors. He had just over 4 times my military strength; my weakness was his reason for war in the diplo screen. Now granted, he was absolutely horrible at actually fighting the war - I lost one unit (the scout, because I did something stupid) in the entire conflict and shredded his army, but he did know exactly when to attack me for me to have a monumental "Oh crap! I might actually lose to the AI" moment.

I doubt its actual intelligence on the AIs part, he just knows what kind of an army you have by looking at the database or whatever. He's cheating. Songhai are normally aggressive so no big surprise there...

 

[Scios]

I doubt its actual intelligence on the AIs part, he just knows what kind of an army you have by looking at the database or whatever. He's cheating. Songhai are normally aggressive so no big surprise there...

This affect is called "the computer is a cheating b*****d. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard
It has a whole file on civ and the AI. But still, if you have space between yourself and the AI (not easily possible on small maps) early diplomacy can go easily.

 

[dshirk]

I doubt its actual intelligence on the AIs part, he just knows what kind of an army you have by looking at the database or whatever. He's cheating. Songhai are normally aggressive so no big surprise there...

Just to clarify, the sneak attack routines access the same "advisor" data that the player has access to. It compares it's overall military strength to yours (similar to what the player sees on the "pointiest sticks" screen, and then makes a decision whether to exploit the difference.

 

[Smokeybear]

...he [Hiawatha] settled a random city near my borders though...i think that set it off.

If I had to choose just one sentence to describe the essence of each AI leader in CiV, that one would defenitely fill the bill nicely for Hiawatha.

 

[dexters]

There is definately a logic to their friendships/denouncements.

but like all civ games, distance helps. Size helps. if you're smaller and struggling they will like you more and see you as less of a threat. But this is really how previous Civ games have modeled the AI.

 

[Smokeybear]

There is definately a logic to their friendships/denouncements.

but like all civ games, distance helps. Size helps. if you're smaller and struggling they will like you more and see you as less of a threat. But this is really how previous Civ games have modeled the AI.

In my experience, if you are smaller and struggling, you are the equivalent of shark chum, and the other civs are all hungry hammerheads. Almost guaranteed to earn you a couple of "your cities will make a nice addition to my empire" statements.

 

[King Patrick]

Post-patch the AIs are definitely much better at identifying & targeting weakness, either in your empire or those of the other AIs. Even very early in the game. Keeping a strong, updated military & city defenses just got more important than ever - not only will it help you fend off an actual attack, it may save you from being viewed as "easy pickings" & prevent some wars from ever starting.