How do you deal with UUs the AI doesn't "get"?

mrscotty

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
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I've encountered this irritating little problem trying to make the leap from Prince level play to "computers cheat with both hands" level, and oddly enough it's got absolutely nothing to do with how I play my own game.

Inevitably, a scenario will arise like my latest game. Playing as Arabia, popped up in a good spot with bad neighbors-sea to the north, Ghengis, Elizabeth and Washington to my south. Immediate war from Ghengis in warriors/archers era which continued throughout with me grinding away his army and eventually took him down to just his capital, which on king took about 30 turns to take thanks to pikemen strolling out every turn that had to be killed before they could get to my composite bowmen. At this point, Elizabeth has declared war with washington, and I had my scout on a hill near their border, just watching the war unfold for kicks. From ancient through classical into medieval eras, the war continued like two seas crashing into each other-the massive instantly spawned armies of Liz and Washington basically balanced each other out while I struggled to stay at the same tech level as everyone else while trying to take Mongolia's capital. Suddenly Elizabeth pops both her UUs and the tides of war change instantly. Washington continues his blind assault on land, but lo and behold all his units are slaughtered by medieval rocket artilleries before they get to the fight now! His navy of spammed frigates suddenly hits a wall of unforgiving frigate murdering machines! A normal human's response would be to switch to ranged units and horsemen to try and combat the longbows and privateers for the ships of the line, but the AI doesn't know that. they have set spawn paths that I generally see, and that includes a massive frigate navy once they get that tech, and a focus on melee units like swords/longswords and trebs/cannons that get wrecked by longbows.

The AI doesn't "get" Elizabeth, and it allows her to universally run away with the game on higher difficulty levels due to the simple increase in scale of everything military related. She took over Washington and two other neighboring civs in a blink of an eye and turned on me, and fighting an empire three times my size was just a losing proposition. She even managed to overtake me in tech and come at me with rifles and (somehow) norwegian ski infantry, though I'm sure that was a glitch.

Does anyone have a solution to how to deal with one of those nations that just gets a UU that the AI can't seem to process right? Other examples are the horse archer type units like arabia, egypt and mongolia that can use hit and run tactics which the AI does quite well but doesn't know how to adequately defend against. Is the appropriate response just to keep a "hit list" of AIs that if you encounter them you MUST go to war and take them down a peg before they can get their war on with the computers around them?

Keep in mind I'm not screaming OP here on any of these nations, it's a problem with the game AI not the civ itself-there are even examples of civs on the opposite end of the spectrum, where their tendency to spam their UU leaves them with a severely crippled, topheavy army and generally means they won't amount for a whole lot. Best example is the huns, who I've seen try to stroll dramatically to war with 20 battering rams and NOTHING ELSE, only to be stopped in their tracks when they realize that shockingly the enemy is not fielding an army of entirely cities.

So what's the secret? how do you cope, oh great civ gurus? And, as a side note, if anyone's done any studies of exactly which nations tend to be runaways and which tend to be fail trains when their UUs roll around, I'd find that very helpful as well.
 
(somehow) norwegian ski infantry, though I'm sure that was a glitch.

They were gifted to her from an allied military City State.

Is the appropriate response just to keep a "hit list" of AIs that if you encounter them you MUST go to war and take them down a peg before they can get their war on with the computers around them?

Pretty much. Though early military superiority will deter them from attacking you at all. Crossbows eat pikemen for breakfast.

So what's the secret?

Early military superiority followed by ruining the warmonger civ and leaving him with maybe one crappy city in the snow. Midgame, I'll settle a one-tile island then sell it to the guy I'm about to destroy for next to nothing, so he'll have a nice place to retire after I clear him from my neighborhood.
 
I think my problem with my most recent game is I was preoccupied with doing that to the Mongols. I'll admit I thought the nice war going between Liz and washington might let me get some peaceful tech superiority going before I had to come down on whoever was ahead at the end, it was so perfectly tied up for ages and the longbow tide turning came so unbelievably fast I couldn't even react to it. She took down him and two neighbors I hadn't ever even met within 20 turns, captured all 3 capitals and had them all down to one city.
 
She took down him and two neighbors I hadn't ever even met within 20 turns, captured all 3 capitals and had them all down to one city.

Being on the receiving end of a longbow is a real pain. I think the key lesson you have to learn between Prince and King, is how to establish military superiority in the first 100 turns. If you reach turn 100 with six Composite Bows and a couple of melee, you'll be in good shape, and it's not too difficult to do. The AI still cheats at King, but mostly they can't steamroll you if you end up with that military at turn 100.
 
That's almost precisely what I had against Mongolia-bunches of composites and some pikes. My biggest ball-drops I think were religion (I went with the 'communion of faiths' science one which is just not one of the optimal 2 religions to go with) and culture, where I went with an early wonder-building civic just to get the GL which later didn't help me at all as Liz stole all the wonders.
 
The AI still doesn't get how to handle ranged units in general, that's one of the big problems. I wouldn't really about military "superiority" if you aren't warmongering, just enough to defend yourself, and the AI's vulnerability to ranged units means you don't exactly need that much on King.

Another solution is to just let the runaway trash a bunch of people and then attack them while they're preoccupied. Remember that for every capital they take that's one less capital that you have to waste your time capturing so you can win the game while they have their pants down. :p
The only Civ that puts up a "he has to die" red flag for me is Siam because of how crazy he becomes late-game buying every city state and getting massive bonuses from it.
 
The AI still doesn't get how to handle ranged units in general, that's one of the big problems. I wouldn't really about military "superiority" if you aren't warmongering, just enough to defend yourself, and the AI's vulnerability to ranged units means you don't exactly need that much on King.

Another solution is to just let the runaway trash a bunch of people and then attack them while they're preoccupied. Remember that for every capital they take that's one less capital that you have to waste your time capturing so you can win the game while they have their pants down. :p
The only Civ that puts up a "he has to die" red flag for me is Siam because of how crazy he becomes late-game buying every city state and getting massive bonuses from it.

Arabia is like that too. I like to get rid of Siam due to how shifty Rammy is. [Not Ramesses, his nickname is Ozzy. Ramkhamhaeng.]
 
The problem with Siam is Father Governs Children. Arabia can be annoying with city-states but he's not any worse than Greece or Egypt or any of the other CSes lovers, but Siam's UA just lets him run out of control. Add his dangerous UU and Wats to the mix and becomes a massive pain in the ass to try and deal with if you wait too long.
 
Is the appropriate response just to keep a "hit list" of AIs that if you encounter them you MUST go to war and take them down a peg before they can get their war on with the computers around them?

Pretty much this. Have surrounding AI go to war with you against her. If they decline, pay them to declare war. It is the easiest way to get rid of an AI you don't wish to have later in the game. At the very least, it will keep her too busy building units to hit later eras in a timely fashion (watch the "Civ X entered Y era messages; the civs who get caught in wars early on tend to fall behind in tech)
 
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