Human vassals of AI

[Col Kurtz]

It's always bugged me the option for the human player to capitulate or peacefully become a vassal to the AI is not an option. AIs make other AIs their vassal, so why not you too.

You could accept the protection of a friendly neighbor if you're concentrating on a cultural win. Or, if you are forced to capitulate, then you could work on satisfying the terms to break free once again.

I am not a modder, but it seems like a fairly straightforward thing to add in. I've tried searching around the site for something like it, but had no luck. Please, let me know if there exists a mod that does this.

I think this would be a good candidate for inclusion in LoR.

 

[achilleszero]

Someone just made a modcomp for this. It seems phungus was also inquiring about it in the thread. It also seems as there are some bugs with it.

Human Vassal modcomp

 

[phungus420]

Yeah, I looked at adding that, but it's buggy and too exploitable (read achilleszero's link).

 

[Col Kurtz]

Thanks for the link guys. I see your concern, but possibly it could be changed so the AI will only consider vassalage during peacetime if you are pleased or friendly. Or, it could be changed so that even if the human becomes a vassal during peacetime, they still have to satisfy the capitulation vassal requirements to break free.

Either way, I'm going to try it out in my next game, and maybe you'll keep in mind how it might fit, with some tweaks, into a future LoR.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

I'd like to be able to vassal to an AI, but the all the techs they give for free should be changed. It would be better than the Internet.

BTW, I really enjoyed this mod. I started playing it a while ago.

 

[phungus420]

I'd like to be able to vassal to an AI, but the all the techs they give for free should be changed. It would be better than the Internet.

Yeah, the component as produced by Afforess has too many issues, and thus couldn't be included unless these were worked out. Mainly the AI would need to cease gifting techs, as you point out. But it also would need to be more discriminatory in it's acceptance of voluntary vassals. Currently the AI will accept the vassalage of any player that offers it, which would obviously be too exploitable for the human.

BTW, I really enjoyed this mod. I started playing it a while ago.

Thanks. I'm starting to get a little disuaded at this project because I never see it recommended by anyone, and most posts here are bug reports. It's nice to see something different. Feel free to post a walkthrough on this mod, or post a Stories and Tales thread/Succession game on how it plays. I think the main issue with this mod is it gets no exposure; no one recommends it, it's not in anyone's signature, and there aren't many examples of it's use.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Thanks. I'm starting to get a little disuaded at this project because I never see it recommended by anyone, and most posts here are bug reports.

Well, if people are posting bugs, that's because they're playing, right?

It's nice to see something different. Feel free to post a walkthrough on this mod, or post a Stories and Tales thread/Succession game on how it plays. I think the main issue with this mod is it gets no exposure; no one recommends it, it's not in anyone's signature, and there aren't many examples of it's use.

I'll try to post a sample game of it as soon as I can. I'm having some RL troubles right now and it can take a while. Don't drop the project, though. I guess some features add excitement to what would be a somewhat boring game. For example, the first time I played it, I drew Justinian on a Fractal map and I was isolated. Then a barb city spawned and I ignored it. A while later, it becomes Montezuma and I had to work hard to become isolated again. That was a nice surprise that got me hooked on the mod.

 

[achilleszero]

I think the main issue with this mod is it gets no exposure; no one recommends it, it's not in anyone's signature, and there aren't many examples of it's use.

How the hell do I make a signature?

Even if LoR is recommended it seems like people intentionally ignore the suggestion. Even if their entire post was asking for a mod that is pretty much what you have written in the OP of the main LoR thread. That or someone totally stears them off track with a completely different suggestion that is the complete counter of what they asked for. OR you are told that suggesting something you have worked on is a bad thing.

 

[phungus420]

Even if LoR is recommended it seems like people intentionally ignore the suggestion. Even if their entire post was asking for a mod that is pretty much what you have written in the OP of the main LoR thread. That or someone totally stears them off track with a completely different suggestion that is the complete counter of what they asked for. OR you are told that suggesting something you have worked on is a bad thing.

For the signature thing, it's in your profile settings. It's in the same list as how to set your avatar.

With mod suggestions it can be frustrating as the 3 responses are always BUG, RoM, and FFH, it seems to not matter what the OP asks for. Also while i do plug LoR often, there are countless posts of me directing people to other mods, like HotK, Planetfall, and even at times RoM (if they say they want a whole lot more). It's just my hope to one day see a mod request thread where someone recommends LoR, other then me (actually I've seen Lemon Merchant recommend the mod a couple of times, but she has disapeared). And I'd really like to see succession game played using LoR; that would be entertaining. But it's just not happening now. I think the reason this is bugging me today is the FFH other mod thread where LoR is never once mentioned, yet most of the other big mods are, and to add insult to injury the Test of Time mod is recommended, yet that mod wol't even play past turn 50 without crashing, it just boggles the mind. Anyway I'm done sulking on this. But yeah, for any users that want to help out the project, one of the best ways would be just to increase exposure, ie recommend it and what not.

 

[phungus420]

Well, if people are posting bugs, that's because they're playing, right?

Don't get me wrong here. I apreciat well written bug reports, they allow me to fix issues. The goal of the project is to be bug free by a 1.0 release, well at least as bug free as Vanilla Civ4 was after the first patch. It's just that I'd like to see other things discussed as well, not just me and achilleszero talking about development and the odd bug report. Look at the other active projects, there is usually a lot of things being discussed. I mean there is very little in the way of user feedback here...

 

[achilleszero]

Don't get me wrong here. I apreciat well written bug reports, they allow me to fix issues. The goal of the project is to be bug free by a 1.0 release, well at least as bug free as Vanilla Civ4 was after the first patch. It's just that I'd like to see other things discussed as well, not just me and achilleszero talking about development and the odd bug report. Look at the other active projects, there is usually a lot of things being discussed.

That is strange because thier bug threads are as just as active and their C&C threads are just as littered with bug reports. Are LoR players just more into playing and not into active discussion (which isnt a bad thing but strange nonetheless)?

 

[achilleszero]

I guess I am not allowed to have a signature. Done it like 5 times and it doesnt show up.

EDIT: nevermind there it is, I guess it is not post de facto and retroactive like your picture

 

[Maniac]

Thanks. I'm starting to get a little disuaded at this project because I never see it recommended by anyone, and most posts here are bug reports.

2750 downloads in one and a half month? Your mod is more popular than Planetfall.

 

[Ambassador]

Phungus, all the players of the mod are just too busy playing the mod, thats why theres no time for posting!

No, seriously, for the most time the mod just works fine, everything fits well, so there's little to discuss or to change.

 

[Lean]

Exactly. And once Dragonxander is done with his Earth Map, we'll be spitting out senarios like anything.

 

[Afforess]

It's always bugged me the option for the human player to capitulate or peacefully become a vassal to the AI is not an option. AIs make other AIs their vassal, so why not you too.

You could accept the protection of a friendly neighbor if you're concentrating on a cultural win. Or, if you are forced to capitulate, then you could work on satisfying the terms to break free once again.

I am not a modder, but it seems like a fairly straightforward thing to add in. I've tried searching around the site for something like it, but had no luck. Please, let me know if there exists a mod that does this.

I think this would be a good candidate for inclusion in LoR.

Someone just made a modcomp for this. It seems phungus was also inquiring about it in the thread. It also seems as there are some bugs with it.

Human Vassal modcomp

Yeah, I looked at adding that, but it's buggy and too exploitable (read achilleszero's link).

Thanks for the link guys. I see your concern, but possibly it could be changed so the AI will only consider vassalage during peacetime if you are pleased or friendly. Or, it could be changed so that even if the human becomes a vassal during peacetime, they still have to satisfy the capitulation vassal requirements to break free.

Either way, I'm going to try it out in my next game, and maybe you'll keep in mind how it might fit, with some tweaks, into a future LoR.

I'd like to be able to vassal to an AI, but the all the techs they give for free should be changed. It would be better than the Internet.

BTW, I really enjoyed this mod. I started playing it a while ago.

Yeah, the component as produced by Afforess has too many issues, and thus couldn't be included unless these were worked out. Mainly the AI would need to cease gifting techs, as you point out. But it also would need to be more discriminatory in it's acceptance of voluntary vassals. Currently the AI will accept the vassalage of any player that offers it, which would obviously be too exploitable for the human.


Thanks. I'm starting to get a little disuaded at this project because I never see it recommended by anyone, and most posts here are bug reports. It's nice to see something different. Feel free to post a walkthrough on this mod, or post a Stories and Tales thread/Succession game on how it plays. I think the main issue with this mod is it gets no exposure; no one recommends it, it's not in anyone's signature, and there aren't many examples of it's use.

You know, someone could have brought be over here; since I like, only made the modcomp, instead of stumbling on this thread looking for something else. I know a lot more C++ now then I did then, I bet if I gave it a half-hour of my time, I could fix it. I'll see if I can address it later on today.

On Phungus, on LoR, I think you do great work. I would much rather that you don't quit. RoM's forums were silent for the longest times. It wasn't until about 6 months ago that they became really active.

With mod suggestions it can be frustrating as the 3 responses are always BUG, RoM, and FFH, it seems to not matter what the OP asks for. Also while i do plug LoR often, there are countless posts of me directing people to other mods, like HotK, Planetfall, and even at times RoM (if they say they want a whole lot more). It's just my hope to one day see a mod request thread where someone recommends LoR, other then me (actually I've seen Lemon Merchant recommend the mod a couple of times, but she has disapeared). And I'd really like to see succession game played using LoR; that would be entertaining. But it's just not happening now. I think the reason this is bugging me today is the FFH other mod thread where LoR is never once mentioned, yet most of the other big mods are, and to add insult to injury the Test of Time mod is recommended, yet that mod wol't even play past turn 50 without crashing, it just boggles the mind. Anyway I'm done sulking on this. But yeah, for any users that want to help out the project, one of the best ways would be just to increase exposure, ie recommend it and what not.

Phungus, your generalizing. Remember the thread in the main C&C forum a week back, where the user wanted a mod that just fixed some general gameplay bugs? What mod did I recommend? I recommended PIG, UP and BAI. Not RoM.

Also, I think I recommended LoR once, because a user wanted a mod with Revolutions, but w/o all of RoM's new content.

Another possible reason you have issues with a silent forum is your general philosophy on LoR. You want it to be a "commercially viable" expansion. While that's very laudible (and more realistic, RoM does have game-breaking bugs in V 2.71), it stifles creation. RoM's philosophy has always been "More, More, More*" and so it gets tons of modmoder's who sit around, thinking up new ideas. I'm not saying that you need to change your focus, just telling you why things are they way they are.

*As long as it's balanced out

No, seriously, for the most time the mod just works fine, everything fits well, so there's little to discuss or to change.

Exactly. And once Dragonxander is done with his Earth Map, we'll be spitting out senarios like anything.

No news is good news.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I think the main issue with this mod is it gets no exposure; no one recommends it, it's not in anyone's signature, and there aren't many examples of it's use.

Fixed.

 

[Afforess]

Phungus, did you ever add this feature to LoR, now that Jdog added the AI code for us?

 

[phungus420]

No. That code has not been merged by jdog yet into RevDCM. It's incorporation into LoR will wait on that. I like to keep LoR's Python and DLL as close to RevDCM as possible, as this makes debugging and updating infinitely easier..

 

[phungus420]

Fixed.

Thanks Lemon