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Humiliation for Wall Street as US Gov't announces mother of all bailouts

Congress needs to be cleaned out completely in November. Regulations need to be put back in place (and added to). And the US needs actually viable non-Republocrat candidates for federal offices that aren't just going to bend over for lobbyists and campaign bundlers' supporters and corporate sponsors. Why is it so hard to find them? Every election it's the same group of worthless people from the two parties....

Candidates that don't play ball don't get the funding. They can't be marketed to the American people in that oh so entertaining way they've come to expect. The public is also not concerned enough (until the pocketbook gets stolen) to inform themselves out of the dialectic of Republican/Democrat.
 
So let's lay it all out on the line. You keep saying "if i'm so smart, why aren't i the one running the show", instead of actually coming up with arguments or examples that show your point over mine.
Analogy: this sounds rather like a guy who divided a large odd number by a large even number in his head, got an integer, and says "if you're so smart, tell me what the answer is then" when you point out that he's wrong.
 
Deutsche Welle

Merkel Slams US, Britain for Blocking Tighter Financial Controls

German Chancellor Angela Merkel indirectly criticized the United States and Britain on Saturday for blocking her government's previous efforts to tighten regulation of financial markets and inject transparency.

Speaking in Austria on Saturday, Sept 20, Merkel said her government had tried in vain to win G8 support last year for tighter regulation of hedge funds and financial oversight of capital markets, hinting that she felt vindicated in her stance as a financial disaster unfolded on Wall Street in recent days.

"It was said for a long time 'Let the markets take care of themselves' and that there is 'no need for more transparency'," Merkel said at a rally in Linz, where she was campaigning on behalf of the Austrian conservative People's Party (OeVP).

"Today we are a step further because even America and Britain are saying 'Yes, we need more transparency, we need better standards for the ratings agencies'," Merkel said.

Merkel: Not enough support from US, Britain

In a seperate interview with a Munich newspaper, Muenchner Merkur, to be published on Monday, Merkel criticized the US and British governments for obstructing Germany's efforts in the first half of 2007 to bring greater transparency to the markets.

"I criticise the perception that the financial markets have of themselves," she told the paper. "Alas, they have opposed for too long the introduction of rules with the backing of the British and American governments," she said.

"On top of national rules, we need more international agreements to stem irresponsible financial speculation."

Merkel said that when Germany headed the G8 group of industrialized nations last year, it had advocated greater transparency in international financial transactions, especially in hedge funds.

She said a single nation like Germany could do little by itself to fix the international financial system.

"That's why I and Finance Minister (Peer) Steinbrueck insisted back in 2007 during the German presidency of the Group of Eight that we need more rules for greater transparency in international money dealing, with the ratings agencies and with the hedge funds," she said.

But the United States and Britain "did not back this to the degree required," she said. "That was regretable at first but that's changed in the meantime," the chancellor added.

Germany freezes short-selling

Meanwhile, Germany halted short-selling in financial shares, when investors borrow company stock to sell it, following the example of Britain and the United States.

The ban affects 11 shares including those of AAreal Bank, Allianz, AMB Generali, Commerzbank, Deutsche Bank, Deutsche Boerse, Deutsche Postbank, Hannover Re, Hypo Real Estate, MLP and Munich Re.

The Federal Financial Supervisory Authority, or BaFin, said short sales were banned with immediate effect until the end of the year, underscoring that they could lead to huge losses in the current global financial turmoil.

"In the prevailing situation in the markets, these could lead to losses for financial institutions," BaFin chief Jochen Sanio said.

However, the ban will be reviewed routinely, BaFin said.

Short-selling can put enormous pressure on markets if sentiment turns negative -- as it has done over past months in the credit crunch -- and is considered partly responsible for the dramatic fall in share prices seen in once mighty investment banks and other financial groups.

Short sales are designed to profit from a declining share price by an investor or broker arranging a sale of a share he does not own but has "borrowed" on an agreement to return the share at a future date.

In effect, the investor or broker is betting that the share price will fall and that they will make a profit.

Short sales have been banned in Britain until January 16 and in the United States until October 2.

I say we follow Germany's lead.

:)
 
I say we follow Germany's lead.

:)
Invading Poland is fun indeed, but we need serious solutions here!



RE: Actual thread
Yeah, that article was pretty good. The Fed has not helped with its loose policies, but the market has done most of the damage itself - has been allowed to do this damage to itself. Capitalism without regulation is scams and gambling and sleight of hand masquerading as proper activity. Give me slow growth over instability. So long as I personally have a job, a decent but not great wage, and a dependably low inflation rate, job security, and know my retirement funds aren't going to be wiped out ten years down the line from general asshattery, I'm happy. Oh, but then America wouldn't have the biggest penis - I mean economy :cry:

RE: what do the Republicans/etc have to offer? Culture wars, a born-again neocon sellout, and a soccer mom with extremist views and no experience, all heavily subsidized by corporations and the rich. And that's all they need to stay in power.
 
So long as I personally have a job, a decent but not great wage, and a dependably low inflation rate, job security, and know my retirement funds aren't going to be wiped out ten years down the line from general asshattery, I'm happy.

But that sounds like socialism :cry:
 
From Wiki:

he proposed bill would give Paulson unprecedented powers to use the money as he sees fit, with little or no oversight. The massive bailout will push the US national debt to an all time record of $11,315,000,000,000.

Just hand Hank Paulson $700,000,000,000? No thanks.
 
But that sounds like socialism :cry:
NO!!!! Socialism is bad :cry: do. not. want! Do not want!




But, some magical economic system that fused appropriate and moderate government oversight and regulation with a capitalist economy and sufficient safety nets and necessary social programs and limited but important public works projects would be nice. Do they have a word for that? I think Europe does it sort of... it's like where you trade some growth and efficiency for equality and stability, but like half-and-half sort of.
 
Oh, just watch. People are stupid and have short memories. In a few years they'll start trotting out the same failed ideology and suckers will fall for it all over again.

That's why this has to be really pushed into peoples minds much more by the Dems and the left. Bush and Republicans need to be Carterized so this crazy cult of the market never rises again.
 
The problem is that I don't feel the business community feels the same way. They quite like a freer market it seems, and they hold most of the information outlets in their hands and are the "establishment" when it comes to authority on the economy, one that isn't questioned very much, I think. In order to actually change the system in the long-term that very trust relationship and the status of CEOs and big corporations knowing what's best for the country as a whole needs to change.

And the problem is that this culture of efficiency, win at all costs, externalize your problems, and cut and attack business has trickled down to every worker. It's a business culture given to you when you enter the system, even as a cashier or stockboy, and needs to be accepted to a significant extent if you want to climb the ladder. And if you do want to climb the ladder, you had better agree with those execs' and big players' ideas, because the guys below them do, and the guys below them do. Ideology trickles down a hell of a lot faster than wealth.

There aren't general social virtues or ideals anymore to moderate these impulses. They have been replaced by the splintering of society along the lines of the culture wars: people have come to compete with and hate their cultural rivals to the extent that they can't agree with them on anything and the body politic itself is internally incoherent in the most fundamental sense.

Such vehemence cannot breed cooperation and moderation, and again so much of this is perpetuated by a media machine that is now controlled heavily by conglomerates that don't care about ideals or decency at all compared to profits (profits and unsustainable growth = virtue now), and this valuation made necessary by the nature of the deregulated system. They will foster hatespeech, and they will cater to smaller ideological movements because they will make money off of them, and where there is such passion there is even more money to be made if they can wrap their products in that passion. And then with this megaphone in hand, these small movements can grow and this counterproductive hatred can dominate the intellectual scene. It's never "the system itself is causing X," it's always, "the liberals/conservatives are causing X." It's scapegoating, except it's happening on all sides at once. They get rich by getting people pissed at each other. It's not all their fault, no, much blame still rests on the people that are complicit, and it's not some grand conspiracy, but it's just what's happening and their influence is significant. It's hard to regulate people, very dangerous too to try, but at least you can do something with businesses.

I don't understand why we think businesses deserve the same freedoms as humans. They heavily distort democracy when given those same protections.

Well, I'm just ranting. I'll stop now, bedtime and all that.
 
For the tenth time. If interest rates were not essentially negative, the ammount of borrowing would never be nearly as big. Can you understand this very basic principle?
Come on luiz, you know perfectly well that banks had NO obligation to borrow as much as they possibly could and lend to whoever asked for it. No-one forced them to make bad loans. Just because the Fed's base rate is 1% doesn't mean you are FORCED to lend to people who can't afford it.

But hey, if you're saying that banks are stupid enough to think that the housing market will grow at 20% per year forever, or that the base rate will stay at 1% per year forever, then you sound like a PERFECT advocate for stringent regulation on banks, so that they are forced to follow the basic rules of sensible lending.
 
NO!!!! Socialism is bad :cry: do. not. want! Do not want!

But, some magical economic system that fused appropriate and moderate government oversight and regulation with a capitalist economy and sufficient safety nets and necessary social programs and limited but important public works projects would be nice. Do they have a word for that? I think Europe does it sort of... it's like where you trade some growth and efficiency for equality and stability, but like half-and-half sort of.

Yes, I'd much rather know that my hard work and planning would bear fruit than have them subject to 'market forces'. No idea what the name of such a system is, though. Some people have been stung over here, being sold an investment product that was supposedly diversified and low-risk but is now revealed to be more complicated than that. Ordinary people watch their savings go up in smoke as they are mismanaged or simply siphoned away by financial 'experts'.

I wonder how much of this system you describe fits in with the Chicago school, which seems to be quite popular here. Not very much, I suspect. I have some questions about how economic theories should be judged in light of recent events and studies, but the resident Chicago school economist has deemed me too unworthy :(
 
everyones a socialist when things get bad. im not shocked that businesses follow suit.
 
That's why this has to be really pushed into peoples minds much more by the Dems and the left. Bush and Republicans need to be Carterized so this crazy cult of the market never rises again.

I agree but in 1988 with the expensive Savings & Loan bailout fresh in everyone's mind (it should have been a lasting reminder of why deregulation results in massive screw ups) everyone was saying "never again!" but by the time Republicans won the Congressional elections in 1994 everyone was "deregulation is the answer!". Surprise, surprise. History repeats itself.
 
everyones a socialist when things get bad. im not shocked that businesses follow suit.

Some people have been saying it since before the bad things happened. I mean, is it really that difficult to figure out that some day things will go bust in a big way again if this goes on?
 
Yeah, the market needs the freedom to screw up. Although the freedom to fix itself seems highly unappealing to almost everyone.
 
NO!!!! Socialism is bad :cry: do. not. want! Do not want!




But, some magical economic system that fused appropriate and moderate government oversight and regulation with a capitalist economy and sufficient safety nets and necessary social programs and limited but important public works projects would be nice. Do they have a word for that?
Soziale Marktwirtschaft
(worked fine for a while until we decided to merge with a socialist country :mischief: - but the US could use some of it and maybe they won't try a similar merger, though with china owning more and more of the US's dept it might be a takeover :hide: :p)
 
That sounds about right. And I like speaking German. sozialekartwirtschaftenbergergeregeltenfreiensystem!
 
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