Implications of the Monopolistic Order

[Narz]

Why not? There are people who make plenty of money off of donations

Too risky

My question about your last point is: protected from what?

From someone else copying and/or selling it

 

[Plains-Cow]

Those R&D folk would be spared having to come up with new things, because they would be out of a job. If investors cannot make a profit from it, the R&D department will be a cost factor which will be cut at the earliest opportunity.

I don't support that investor-based system.

If you support that system and IP, you support this:

 

[Plains-Cow]

Too risky

It's not risky at all, though. What are you risking by selling your own art?

From someone else copying and/or selling it

What's wrong with that? You're the original person who did it, so if you do it better, then what's the problem? You can also copy other peoples' ideas yourself without fear of external punishment. Besides, it isn't like large companies and international businesses don't copy one another all the time. Amazon, for example, copies the ideas of people who sell on the platform all the time, and those people have no recompense because Amazon changes it juuuust enough to seem different, even if we don't see the differences, and they have powerful copyright lobbyists who will work for them defending their copied version but not yours.

The only way to stop this is to get rid of copyright.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

What's wrong with that? You're the original person who did it, so if you do it better, then what's the problem? You can also copy other peoples' ideas yourself without fear of external punishment. Besides, it isn't like large companies and international businesses don't copy one another all the time. Amazon, for example, copies the ideas of people who sell on the platform all the time, and those people have no recompense because Amazon changes it juuuust enough to seem different, even if we don't see the differences, and they have powerful copyright lobbyists who will work for them defending their copied version but not yours.

The only way to stop this is to get rid of copyright.

Okay, here's a RL example. There's a guy from Eastern Europe (don't recall if Latvia or Lithuania) who has sold the most amazing cat and bird-themed art on deviantArt for many years. His dA name is apofiss, and I've used a couple of his pictures as my avatars here over the years (if anyone remembers the little black cat wearing a bag and peeking out through the eye holes). I've purchased a lot of apofiss' stuff over the years - cups, magnets, small prints from dA, and a couple of throw pillows when he sold on Society6 under his real name.

A couple of years ago I was browsing around in the craft patterns on Amazon and was shocked to see needlepoint patterns for his owl and sparrow pictures being sold... by some Chinese company. It would surprise me greatly if he'd authorized this. His name appears nowhere in the product listing as the creator of either the pattern or the original image.


Here's a reason why I would never copy someone else's fanfic story and pass it off as my own. Some people have done that, and since it's fanfic there's not a lot of legal consequences - none, really, since the original writer was already playing in someone else's copyrighted sandbox.

When this theft - yes, it's theft - occurs, word get around. The person who originally wrote the story has the earlier publication date, and they know all the places where they posted it. (some authors are okay with people archiving stories in public archives, some are okay if they give permission, and others are not okay at all).

Anyone found to be stealing stories, putting their own name on it, and posting it tends to be outed, publicly shamed, shunned, and if a case is made to the people who run the fanfiction sites, the story thief will be banned.

So... have I ever copied stories? AO3 allows stories to be downloaded, so yes. I do that so I can read them when I have more time, or to re-read as often as I might like. I do that to preserve them (AO3 has experienced some nasty attacks this year). Sometimes people take their stories down for whatever reason, including some that I liked. So I save stuff. I don't repost them without permission or claim I own them.

 

[Narz]

It's not risky at all, though. What are you risking by selling your own art?

You've not heard the term starving artist?

You risk having to get a real job and not being able to do art full time.

What's wrong with that? You're the original person who did it, so if you do it better, then what's the problem?

Do it better? Command x, command v, it's equal, or see Valka example above

Counterfeits aren't usually better they're usually worse which damages your brand and reputation

 

[Plains-Cow]

Okay, here's a RL example. There's a guy from Eastern Europe (don't recall if Latvia or Lithuania) who has sold the most amazing cat and bird-themed art on deviantArt for many years. His dA name is apofiss, and I've used a couple of his pictures as my avatars here over the years (if anyone remembers the little black cat wearing a bag and peeking out through the eye holes). I've purchased a lot of apofiss' stuff over the years - cups, magnets, small prints from dA, and a couple of throw pillows when he sold on Society6 under his real name.

A couple of years ago I was browsing around in the craft patterns on Amazon and was shocked to see needlepoint patterns for his owl and sparrow pictures being sold... by some Chinese company. It would surprise me greatly if he'd authorized this. His name appears nowhere in the product listing as the creator of either the pattern or the original image.


Here's a reason why I would never copy someone else's fanfic story and pass it off as my own. Some people have done that, and since it's fanfic there's not a lot of legal consequences - none, really, since the original writer was already playing in someone else's copyrighted sandbox.

When this theft - yes, it's theft - occurs, word get around. The person who originally wrote the story has the earlier publication date, and they know all the places where they posted it. (some authors are okay with people archiving stories in public archives, some are okay if they give permission, and others are not okay at all).

Anyone found to be stealing stories, putting their own name on it, and posting it tends to be outed, publicly shamed, shunned, and if a case is made to the people who run the fanfiction sites, the story thief will be banned.

So... have I ever copied stories? AO3 allows stories to be downloaded, so yes. I do that so I can read them when I have more time, or to re-read as often as I might like. I do that to preserve them (AO3 has experienced some nasty attacks this year). Sometimes people take their stories down for whatever reason, including some that I liked. So I save stuff. I don't repost them without permission or claim I own them.

I'm not saying you should pass it off as your own original idea if it's a 1:1 copy. What's unique about your own work is that you can typically easily prove that it's yours. It'd be like if you claimed you were the first person to write XYZ fanfic when the original author is easily able to show that they were the actual first person to write it. Regardless, this is merely attribution of origin, which is totally different from the concept of "stealing an idea" (which is impossible).

While I agree that it's scummy to say you wrote something first when someone else actually did, it's generally easy to disprove and pretty tame compared to what IP laws cause to happen in the world. Did you watch the YouTube video above at all? I think you'd find it enlightening.

You've not heard the term starving artist?

You risk having to get a real job and not being able to do art full time.


Do it better? Command x, command v, it's equal, or see Valka example above

Counterfeits aren't usually better they're usually worse which damages your brand and reputation

Most artists are only worth big money long after their deaths and some company finds a way to make a profit off of their work. That's a feature of the system.

Also, the point is if you have a longform story in mind or world, and someone just copies it and tries to make their own version of it with a sequel, odds are your characters will be better than theirs because of the superiority of the work.

The idea that you're "branding" yourself is, again, IP language. If you're known for being an amazing painter or writer, then people will come to you for said work, brand unneeded.

Did you watch the YouTube video above?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Did you watch the YouTube video above at all? I think you'd find it enlightening.

Yes, I watched it. Drug companies overcharging for tests. People unable to afford them, or not getting the right tests and not knowing they were sick and needing treatment. It's not "enlightening." It's infuriating.

I've had the experience of having a pharmacist laugh in my face when I asked if there were any generic versions of meds that were prescribed for me that aren't covered and I couldn't really afford, but which were necessary.

So what did I do when I needed three different kinds of eyedrops for my pre- and post-op care for my cataract surgery?

Let's just say that the food budget went waaay down. At the same time that I was struggling with being a newly-diagnosed diabetic and told to "read labels" (couldn't read anything by that point) and that I needed so much of this/day and so much of that in my diet...

 

[Plains-Cow]

Yes, I watched it. Drug companies overcharging for tests. People unable to afford them, or not getting the right tests and not knowing they were sick and needing treatment. It's not "enlightening." It's infuriating.

I've had the experience of having a pharmacist laugh in my face when I asked if there were any generic versions of meds that were prescribed for me that aren't covered and I couldn't really afford, but which were necessary.

So what did I do when I needed three different kinds of eyedrops for my pre- and post-op care for my cataract surgery?

Let's just say that the food budget went waaay down. At the same time that I was struggling with being a newly-diagnosed diabetic and told to "read labels" (couldn't read anything by that point) and that I needed so much of this/day and so much of that in my diet...

The reason this happened to you is because of IP laws. IP laws prevents companies from making generics. IP laws are what create the printer ink industry model of healthcare, as is described in the video. The company made the TB diagnosing machine with 80% of the funds coming from the public purse. They are bragging to investors that they have a "razorblade sales model for a critical piece of health equipment." In desperation, people have been protesting for years, but to no avail. IP laws enable this.

 

[Verbose]

The reason this happened to you is because of IP laws. IP laws prevents companies from making generics. IP laws are what create the printer ink industry model of healthcare, as is described in the video. The company made the TB diagnosing machine with 80% of the funds coming from the public purse. They are bragging to investors that they have a "razorblade sales model for a critical piece of health equipment." In desperation, people have been protesting for years, but to no avail. IP laws enable this.

Arguably it is not IP laws that is the problem. It is the US failure to provide sensible health-care to its citizens. It's a political problem of distribution. The US could solve it politically, if US politics were set up to solve things politically, and not through litigation – or not at all...

Lady is very positive to her European experience, but she is not wrong:

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Arguably it is not IP laws that is the problem. It is the US failure to provide sensible health-care to its citizens. It's a political problem of distribution. The US could solve it politically, if US politics were set up to solve things politically, and not through litigation – or not at all...

Lady is very positive to her European experience, but she is not wrong:

The U.S. isn't my issue. I'm Canadian. The issue in Canada is that while I can go to the hospital and have surgery and not have to pay for it, the same can't be said of whatever after-care is necessary. If I'm put on meds, I do have to pay for them, at least for what isn't covered by the disability program I'm on.

I remember this ridiculous argument with a doctor at the hospital, who prescribed a particular medication she said I'd responded well to.

The problem is that it's not covered. The only way around it is to provide 6 months' of records proving that metformin doesn't work for me.

I can't even tolerate metformin for 6 days, let alone 6 months. That stuff gives me pain like I'm having a gall bladder attack.

When I tried to explain this to the nurse in the hospital, she said in a cheerful, perky voice that made me want to slap her, "So maybe you're having a gall bladder attack!"

Read my file, idiot. At the time of that conversation, I'd had my gall bladder removed 18 years previously. But I remember very well how painful it is. A gall bladder attack, for me, lasted anywhere from 6-12 hours, and was unremitting agony. The pain from the metformin went on for DAYS. Even after upchucking, it went on for ages. So I'm supposed to subject myself to this for 6 months?

Apparently so. When I tried to explain to the doctor at the hospital that no, I couldn't just go out and buy this stuff - "It's only $90!" she said in a scolding tone - she just couldn't wrap her head around the idea that someone on AISH just doesn't have that kind of money tucked away in a pocket.

So any time someone tells you that heath care is free in Canada - no, it's not. Doctor visits, hospital stays, and the meds you get while there are taxpayer-funded. Afterward, if you can't find the money for whatever meds you're supposed to have, you're screwed. There are horrific stories of some people being denied coverage of life-saving meds for various bureaucratic reasons. One woman happened to be afflicted by a disease that normally only occurs with elderly people, and she was told that once she was 65 she could apply again. The problem was that at that time she was in her early 40s, and would be dead inside a month or two if she didn't get this prohibitively expensive medication. So she filed a complaint with the Human Rights Commission, citing discrimination on the basis of age. And thankfully she won.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Arguably it is not IP laws that is the problem. It is the US failure to provide sensible health-care to its citizens. It's a political problem of distribution. The US could solve it politically, if US politics were set up to solve things politically, and not through litigation – or not at all...

Lady is very positive to her European experience, but she is not wrong:

Third parties cannot even make cartridges for the TB diagnosing machine, let alone duplicate the machine or recreate one that could accept universal cartridges for diagnosis. This is because of IP laws, the same style of laws that keep printers from accepting different cartridges of ink are being used to prevent a critical machine from diagnosing TB for literally millions of people across the globe, first and third world alike (thought the latter is obviously more affected). Supporting IP laws means supporting the above. There is no European company that could make the TB machine or cartridges without being sued for copyright infringement by this multinational company that holds the "intellectual rights."