[Civ2] I keep bungling my early landing attempts

[Winth]

Idk if it's just a matter of falling into skip-turn-itis, but I'm a little miffed that I managed to turn a game with 980 AD Industrialization and a perfectionist-leaning Republic into this slugfest that only got the Spaceship started (not landed, started) in 1790 AD or so.

I feel like I'm running out of steam somewhere, whether it is with lack of focus or clear gameplan -- should I still be relying on trade after Invention? Libraries or Universities instead of Marketplaces/Banks/Stocks? When do I actually stop expanding?

I have a save file that feels like it had my empire at its peak before I ultimately slowed down. Looking back I only now realize that 1000 AD and 1800 AD is only a matter of like 75 turns, but I've read reports of games ramping up in like 30 turns after going full Freight mode.

Save is on Civ2 Multiplayer Gold with Civ2UILauncher, not sure how relevant that is.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I've found that the earlier you get your libraries and universities going, the faster you'll acquire the tech to get your space program going. Yes, you need to trade, to bring in money to rush-purchase things you need, to use diplomats/spies to steal tech and bribe cities, and if necessary pay for tech if you can't get it any other way when you need it.

I always push science and literacy in my games, which means it's rare that I'm not the first to get the Apollo program, and unless something goes horribly wrong, I am in full control of when I send the spaceship off.

 

[Giftless]

Your main problem is that Universities and Colosseums are terrible production sinks, eating up all your bonus cash from caravans. Once this happens, your nation's weaker industrial footing and lack of passive income really begins to catch up with you.

Here's some suggestions I would make to improve your game:

1. Switch the sliders back to Tax: 4, Sci: 5, Lux 1
2. Sell the Universities (unless they produce a gain of 8-11 science)
3. Sell the colosseums (these should only be used to "free up" multiple entertainers)
4. Place markets and banks according to where you get the best return
5. This helps to support aqueducts, then you can pop boom
6. Pop boom makes your caravan deliveries and routes worth more
7. Rush build libraries

Another thing is that Dye and Wool are junk for delivery bonuses, you want at least Wine, Silver, Gems, Spice, Silk, Gold.

A final thought is that harbors are also bad unless you're pulling in like 3 or 4 food, you should try to get some NONE settlers and irrigate a few shielded grasslands around your cities. That'll support your ocean workers or maybe a lone entertainer (which might even quell an unhappy citizen by becoming a taxman).

 

[Giftless]

Ask some of the speed players about Smallpox strategy, too-- even the best "builder" play with infrastructure returns may not be fast enough for the goal you're trying to achieve.

https://lparchive.org/Civilization-2/Update 05/

Actually, Melth here covers the topic a bit (if you scroll to the bottom post).

 

[Winth]

Actually, Melth here covers the topic a bit (if you scroll to the bottom post).

Thanks for the post as the suggestions to sell superfluous buildings and really calculate their impact was great, but I find the link dubious and not really confirming much in particular; the player in question calls Great Library a great wonder (rates it in the same tier as Bach's, Michelangelo's, and Hanging Gardens?), Colossus / Copernicus a waste when they're rather explicitly a must for what I'm attempting to do, and mostly just talks about the balance between tall and wide playstyles with truisms like "you don't want to settle on mountains". I'm perfectly aware of how that works.

My attempts at a leaner empire were derived from my lack of desire to micromanage a huge, Peaster-style empire, as well as taking inspiration by the Solo Early Landing Guide; even if its findings were mostly rendered obsolete by the supremacy of the prolonged stay in Monarchy, I found the smaller builder empire more appealing, and way capable of winning by space before 1500 AD, even.

Since that post, I had actually finally managed to break the self-appointed 1800s barrier and my spaceship, E.S.S. Cleopatra, landed in 1789 AD. It's good enough for me now.

If I had made Dye and Wool caravans, it is in all likelihood that it was due to my neighbors' demands for them rather than anything else. I've seen logs from space games where the player invested heavily into Hides, in fact, and those don't have the greatest raw return, to my recollection.

 

[Giftless]

Thanks for the post as the suggestions to sell superfluous buildings and really calculate their impact was great, but I find the link dubious and not really confirming much in particular; the player in question calls Great Library a great wonder (rates it in the same tier as Bach's, Michelangelo's, and Hanging Gardens?), Colossus / Copernicus a waste when they're rather explicitly a must for what I'm attempting to do, and mostly just talks about the balance between tall and wide playstyles with truisms like "you don't want to settle on mountains". I'm perfectly aware of how that works.

If I had made Dye and Wool caravans, it is in all likelihood that it was due to my neighbors' demands for them rather than anything else. I've seen logs from space games where the player invested heavily into Hides, in fact, and those don't have the greatest raw return, to my recollection.

Yeah, Melth is kind of hit or miss (He plays a conquest rush, whereas I'm more of a hybrid player by Alpha Centauri standards-- I like J Chamberlin's guide over on Gamefaqs, which puts a heavier emphasis on turn advantage).

Glad to hear your strategy worked out. Ah, on the caravan issue, I'm used to playing in Communism so I have to be more picky about selecting trade-rich terrain and using the more valuable caravans to bring the cities up to celebration mode. From my point-of-view, Dye might be more useful for forming an internal route-- it might only bring in 97 bonus gold (ugh), but re-rolls the trade goods available.

Another thing is I'm usually beating up on foreign civilizations for tribute, so external routes can be devalued through conquest if I'm not careful. This can actually cause big cities to fall out of celebration mode, especially if I don't have Cure for Cancer built yet.

Anyhow, it's fun comparing different playstyles, it's crazy how this game has so many little nuances and mysteries.

 

[C.K.]

https://lparchive.org/Civilization-2/Update 05/

Actually, Melth here covers the topic a bit (if you scroll to the bottom post).

Interesting read, there's just one place where they lost me: "If you have something like 50 cities as a Monarchy on deity, 43 of them are generating unhappiness in about 8 of your cities. You're looking at about 4-6 unhappy citizens (thus 2-3 angry ones) in every city." Could you help me find out which words should be corrected to have that make sense?

 

[Giftless]

Interesting read, there's just one place where they lost me: "If you have something like 50 cities as a Monarchy on deity, 43 of them are generating unhappiness in about 8 of your cities. You're looking at about 4-6 unhappy citizens (thus 2-3 angry ones) in every city." Could you help me find out which words should be corrected to have that make sense?

He's probably talking about the black "double unhappy" citizens which pop up as a consequence of empire size. In your typical Deity game, extra red unhappy citizens will begin to appear when a civilization reaches eight cities in Monarchy-- so at that point you can either A) Slow the construction of new cities and switch over to vertical growth, or B) Trick your way around the problem with luxuries or food resources. Actually, the forum sticky touches upon this Plan B strategy a little bit:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tips-tricks-for-new-players.96725/

34. THE HANGING GARDENS QUIRK

Early in the game the Hanging Gardens is often used to quell unhappiness. There is a quirk wherein it works better in conjunction with Luxuries than with martial law (a military unit in the city that causes a citizen to be content), as long as you have enough cities to cause 'very unhappy' (black faces) to appear. Rather than the normal two goblets making an unhappy citizen content, they make a 'very unhappy' happy instead, but if martial law is also affecting citizens they only make him content. Consider basing your defenders outside the cities rather than inside when you are using Luxuries in conjunction with HG and 'very unhappy' citizens.