I researched Education on turn 51 (quick pace)

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Athenaeum

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If this link works, you should be able to see my screenshot of it here:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/AthenaeumOne/screenshots/


Awhile back, someone said that it would be cool if somebody got a sub-turn 80 Education as Babylon just to display how cool Babylon is (I don't remember who it was).

Well, I figured since everything on quick pace is scaled to 2/3 that of standard pace, this would be the equivalent of getting a sub-turn 54 Education on quick. So here's a turn 51, just in case that person is reading this thread.

I don't know if turn 51 is really all that remarkable. I'm sure there are some people on here who could probably do better than that. But I was bored and figured why not try to beat that challenge?

No mods or anything btw.
 
Uh, first of all, your math is completely screwed up. If you got turn 51 Education on quick speed and quick speed is 2/3 of standard pace then that's the equivalent of turn 76.5.

Second of all, the goal is to do that *with* settling 2-3 more cities. If you can just beeline Philosophy and build the National College super early on one city then duh that's a hell of a lot easier. But it hurts you overall in the end.
 
My math is perfectly fine. That is my point, that even if you adjusted it to standard pace, it still would have come before turn 80.
 
Second, why is only founding one city screwing me up? It is entirely possible to beat the game with one city on any difficulty.

Third, the poster who presented this challenge was referring to a strategy where you would pop an early GS from building the GL and the Oracle (although this wasn't the strategy that I used). Since building the GL and Oracle is not a reasonable expectation above Emperor anyways, this was obviously not a serious challenge meant to last an entire game. I guess this is a good reason why it would be nice if I could pull up the thread URL from somewhere.
 
Athenaeum said:
My math is perfectly fine. That is my point, that even if you adjusted it to standard pace, it still would have come before turn 80.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see what you're trying to do with the math. It still doesn't actually translate that perfectly since movement remains the same, some things like roads can be built in a single turn, etc. I suppose it's a rough estimate, though.

Athenaeum said:
Second, why is only founding one city screwing me up? It is entirely possible to beat the game with one city on any difficulty.
Click to expand...

Because everything about your empire is going to be far worse past turn 100 or whatever. Less gold, less science, less culture, less military. And because you don't need to be building 2-3 settlers or researching luxury techs, your science is massively better on a OCC initially. Which is why you were able to do what you did.

But long term? It'll really hurt you.

Also, serious question: have you beaten Deity at all? If so, have you done it with one city? I mean, yes, it's *possible* to beat the game with one city on some maps. But sometimes it's not and it's a hell of a lot harder overall.
 
LordBalkoth said:
Oh, I see what you're trying to do with the math. It still doesn't actually translate that perfectly since movement remains the same, some things like roads can be built in a single turn, etc. I suppose it's a rough estimate, though.



Because everything about your empire is going to be far worse past turn 100 or whatever. Less gold, less science, less culture, less military. And because you don't need to be building 2-3 settlers or researching luxury techs, your science is massively better on a OCC initially. Which is why you were able to do what you did.

But long term? It'll really hurt you.

Also, serious question: have you beaten Deity at all? If so, have you done it with one city? I mean, yes, it's *possible* to beat the game with one city on some maps. But sometimes it's not and it's a hell of a lot harder overall.
Click to expand...


Yes I have beaten Deity, although never with OCC. However, the biggest question to be answered yet is why you assume I was on a path to OCC? Just because I had not built a second city by turn 50 does not mean I wouldn't have done so later on. Yes it is a tad late to be building a second one by that turn, but I usually don't build a second one that early anyways. By the way, I had already researched mining and masonry in that one, so along with calendar and trapping (which are on the road to Education) , the only luxury tech I was really missing was Sailing (which was irrelevant anyways).
 
Athenaeum said:
Just because I had not built a second city by turn 50 does not mean I wouldn't have done so later on.
Click to expand...

As Tradition you should have both your second and third cities *settled* by turn 50 (standard), that's your goal. If you're doing four cities prior to National College then that might take a few more turns. But especially since this is quick, this means you're at turn 80 or so (translating to Standard) and haven't founded a second city.

So...yeah, I would assume you're doing a OCC. Otherwise you're just hurting yourself by not settling sooner.
 
Is there a rulebook somewhere that says somebody has to found their 2nd city by that time if they're going to found one at all?

I usually do settle my 2nd city before turn 50, but to have 3 settled by that time would be extremely abnormal for me.
 
Athenaeum said:
Is there a rulebook somewhere that says somebody has to found their 2nd city by that time if they're going to found one at all?
Click to expand...


If you want to play optimally for fast finish times yes; if you play 'just for fun' you can do whatever and still win :)
 
Athenaeum said:
Is there a rulebook somewhere that says somebody has to found their 2nd city by that time if they're going to found one at all?

I usually do settle my 2nd city before turn 50, but to have 3 settled by that time would be extremely abnormal for me.
Click to expand...

You will lose steam if your cities aren't picking up after NC. It will be a flying start but it will saturate really quickly
 
IronfighterXXX said:
If you want to play optimally for fast finish times yes; if you play 'just for fun' you can do whatever and still win :)
Click to expand...

Or to put it another way, the opportunity cost of the lost turns of growth, food trade routes, and earlier development is too great to justify sitting on one city only if trying to optimize finish date. Those faster cities are an investment that pays off, numerically, long before the finish time.

Their extra production helps against being killed, too, so it has some applicability even outside of trying to optimize finish time.

But as you say there's a pretty big margin for error so you can get away with all kinds of stuff in the game.
 
The quickest could've been with Babylon since they start with a great scientist.
 
LordBalkoth said:
As Tradition you should have both your second and third cities *settled* by turn 50 (standard), that's your goal. If you're doing four cities prior to National College then that might take a few more turns. But especially since this is quick, this means you're at turn 80 or so (translating to Standard) and haven't founded a second city.

So...yeah, I would assume you're doing a OCC. Otherwise you're just hurting yourself by not settling sooner.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Both approaches are equally viable depending on the situation in the game.

If you stay one city early, rush GL and NC in the capital, and then spread to 4ish cities after NC, you get faster research and faster policies in the early game. Assuming you go tradition, you can get 3 more cities up quickly (buy 2 settlers and build 1) and they will start with a monument and (possibly) an aqueduct. You can also build food caravans from the capital to the new cities to speed up growth.

Alternately, you can concentrate on expanding to 4 cities early, building (or buying) libraries in all of them, and getting NC after expanding. This will increase the cost of policies and technologies as you found new cities, but they will pay for themselves rather quickly as they grow.

The caveat is often how close the AI players are and how aggressively they are expanding towards the land where you want you 3 additional cities. If you are on a continent by yourself or only one AI player, you have more time. If there are several AI players in the area you may want to stake your claim on that land earlier.

I often find that I go for a blend of the two extremes. I will found one additional city to plant a nice Petra location for my first expansion city. This city can build a Library while the capital is building the GL and not slow down the early NC. I then build 1 settler and buy another to get cities 3 and 4 up and running after NC is finished.

...and I say 4ish cities because sometimes 3 is enough, and sometimes I will go for 5-6 (although this is generally 4 built and up to 2 captured AI capitals).
 
Well, having a 3 city NC by T70 is obviously much much much better than having a OCC NC by turn 70. The earliest Tradition finish is around 70-75
 
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