North King
blech
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And curses, das. Couldn't you have left the far south red? A pole to pole empire with territories on ever longitude to boot is very... symbolic.
Ideas and Development--Story NES
- Thread starter North King
- Start date
Swissempire
Poet Jester
Of course the countries are stereotypical, they're stereotypes
I think the world needs to start out simple, because we're going to have 20-30 different storylines going on inside the world. If we've got 25 countries and all of them have super-unique cultures that have to be dug through and who's quirks are only known to their creators, then their creators will be the only ones who know them truly. My nation things were purely for fun, they don't need to be taken too seriously, but i think in a world were there is a Supreme Hegemon, its allies would be entrenched as minor powers. Growth of power makes countergrowth, consolidation furthers other consolidation. When Empire starts growing, the other people in the world aren't going to recline and say "Oh, thats nice", and not try to either latch on or fight back. They will try to reproduce the ideas of Empire, and will be minor version, a la EU and AU.
I think the world needs to start out simple, because we're going to have 20-30 different storylines going on inside the world. If we've got 25 countries and all of them have super-unique cultures that have to be dug through and who's quirks are only known to their creators, then their creators will be the only ones who know them truly. My nation things were purely for fun, they don't need to be taken too seriously, but i think in a world were there is a Supreme Hegemon, its allies would be entrenched as minor powers. Growth of power makes countergrowth, consolidation furthers other consolidation. When Empire starts growing, the other people in the world aren't going to recline and say "Oh, thats nice", and not try to either latch on or fight back. They will try to reproduce the ideas of Empire, and will be minor version, a la EU and AU.
Insane_Panda
Deity
Look at the EU, and the AU. They can barely be called unified. The world, currently, has over 200 different nations. If all of the western world unified, there would still be over 100.
Your view on things is far too simplistic, honestly. A world-spanning empire, no matter how world spanning, would not have the resources (nor the likely will power) to attempt to conquer every single state but 4 or 5. Empire's do not maintain power through absolute rule, they maintain power through varying forms of control, whether it be direct or economic.
You must keep in mind that the tech level is OTL 1940's, and it would be VERY VERY difficult to maintain that kind of control over such a huge area. An area several times larger than any of the largest empires we've ever seen. China has problems administering a population of 1.3 billion. Think that, multiplied a few times, and any empire, no matter how strong, will have to waste an immense amount of resources trying to control all of it (with much of it not giving profit).
In short, the empire would not waste time trying to conquer every inch of land on the planet. And furthermore, there would not be larger powers alive if it did, as they would be targeted first, if the Empire had allies, they would not be very strong ones, and they would always be kept under the Empire's thumb, especially if it was trying to conquer the whole world.
Your view on things is far too simplistic, honestly. A world-spanning empire, no matter how world spanning, would not have the resources (nor the likely will power) to attempt to conquer every single state but 4 or 5. Empire's do not maintain power through absolute rule, they maintain power through varying forms of control, whether it be direct or economic.
You must keep in mind that the tech level is OTL 1940's, and it would be VERY VERY difficult to maintain that kind of control over such a huge area. An area several times larger than any of the largest empires we've ever seen. China has problems administering a population of 1.3 billion. Think that, multiplied a few times, and any empire, no matter how strong, will have to waste an immense amount of resources trying to control all of it (with much of it not giving profit).
In short, the empire would not waste time trying to conquer every inch of land on the planet. And furthermore, there would not be larger powers alive if it did, as they would be targeted first, if the Empire had allies, they would not be very strong ones, and they would always be kept under the Empire's thumb, especially if it was trying to conquer the whole world.
das
Regeneration In Process
No, I couldn't have. Few real countries are symbolic, and the south is too far away and too generally useless for the Empire. Any other complaints?
Swissempire
Poet Jester
Which is why in some form or another all the nations have some control ties to them empire. We're not creating the perfect power here, we're creating a decadent empire that bit off too much too chew. It supposed to be crumbling, having tried to control most of the world. And what i'm saying is that if the Empire is growing, all the small states on the map don't sit by and say, "Oh, hey, look at that. He's establishing Hegemony."
They would attempt to get some pie, because everyone likes or wants pie. Small State A helps Empire by invading Small State B. Empire says thanks, installs puppet regime in Medium State AB and moves on.
I'm under the impression we're creating a giant Worldwide Hegemon, not a simple superpower. Nothing like this has existed in our world, because its NOT possible because the events don't turn out right. We have to create a history here where people play right into the hands of the Emperors. Of course there is going to be a lot of internal autonomy in the Empire, thats a given. Empire take over land that is a) easily administered, b) Resourcefully, strategically, or tactically valueable, or c) To dangerous to be left independent.
And in a world were their is giant naval empires, there is probably more advanced comm.
They would attempt to get some pie, because everyone likes or wants pie. Small State A helps Empire by invading Small State B. Empire says thanks, installs puppet regime in Medium State AB and moves on.
I'm under the impression we're creating a giant Worldwide Hegemon, not a simple superpower. Nothing like this has existed in our world, because its NOT possible because the events don't turn out right. We have to create a history here where people play right into the hands of the Emperors. Of course there is going to be a lot of internal autonomy in the Empire, thats a given. Empire take over land that is a) easily administered, b) Resourcefully, strategically, or tactically valueable, or c) To dangerous to be left independent.
And in a world were their is giant naval empires, there is probably more advanced comm.
das
Regeneration In Process
On both mine and NK maps, it IS the hegemon power. All the others are minors that for various reasons survived, most often for those of logistics and distractions. The only major difference your map has is that there the Empire took over some territories that are useless and untenable for it. Really, I have to agree with NK and Panda here.
North King
blech
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das said:
Of course. Most of them are the disagreements highlighted in our debate, but as I'm sunk rather deep in a depression, quite busy, and in need to update my NES, I'm not going to bother continuing to argue it.
Might as well get down to defining the cultures.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
I would be glad to help in anyway I can if needed.I can't beleive I have missed this thread.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
Start this already! I dont give an eff about cultures@
das
Regeneration In Process
Civilizations for my version of the map (Empire omitted, as we've already settled on the Roman model more or less I think).
Kasar Khanate: western Mainland, Russo-Mongolic with elements of China/Khazaria (mandate of heaven, elaborate ceremony), Hungary (especially in the northeastern, core regions) and Japan (very martial culture, peaceful coexistance of two religions). It is, however, most similar to a more developed and ceremony-filled version of the late Golden Horde/China of the 1910-20s. Imperial authority is rapidly disintegrating except the spiritual one, and warlordism is widespread as various generals (whether of noble birth or not) are on the brink of a new civil war, with the present Prime Minister, former Hundred-thousander (commander of 100,000 men) Timur-Baghatur increasingly ailing and incapable of holding the country together. The country's most prosperous southern provinces have been damaged during the War of the Last Coalition, the post-war rebellions and the reprisals thereafter. Officials are either corrupt, either killed by warlords, either both. Trade is collapsing. Droughts stalk the land.
Lapakkan Realm: more than anything else this state resembles mid-20th century Finland with some early 19th century Greece thrown in (though culturally they're also a bit resemblant of the Hittites; it is more of a coincidence than anything else, though). Having for long been ruled by the Kasar Khanate, the Lapakkans rose up with Imperial assistance during the War of the Last Coalition and won their independence; however, the state is unstable, the various revolutionary leaders are squabbling with each other, and the present Imperial-imposed prince is ever more unpopular amongst the masses, as is the entire old order. Nationalists also want to unite the entire Lapakkan peninsula.
Tekkean Republic and Akkoran Free State (to the southwest of Lapakka from north to south; colours unavailable): two ethnically-Lapakkan minor states that are even more complete puppets of the Empire and were such even before the War of the Last Coalition. These are different from Lapakkan Realm due to their republicanism; there is scarcely any warlordism here, but crime and corruption are flourishing, as is legal and illegal commerce. The urban poor are very discontent, and demoist (socialist) agitators are gaining support despite all the Empire-backed reprisals...
Telleric Confederacy: similar to a more Spartan Swiss Confederation. Is fiercely independent, though the Empire has not attacked it mostly because its rather impoverished and useless.
Vallarian Republic: Telleric Confederacy's little brother - a minor Imperial puppet state, rather similar to OTL Andorra or Monaco, but more militant due to border clashes with Telleric Confederacy and the previous Independence War.
Strydin Dependancy: vaguely West Slavic (with some similarities with LINES II Kehexou as well), but more seafaring, this is a shard of a greater Strydin Empire. It has been a military protectorate of the Empire for many decades since the Second Strydin War, but during the War of the Last Coalition greater internal autonomy was granted. This is being reconsidered now, as the puppet government and the Imperial forces stationed there seem to be chronically incapable of dealing with the popular guerrila insurgency that has been ongoing for almost a decade now and spreading into Imperial territories. The puppet government or parts of it are suspected of treason and assistance to these rebels.
Merchant League of Kokol Itza: most similar to a mix of Venice and the Mayans (especially the ones in DisNES2), this League used to dominate the northern parts of Homeland (southwestern continent). Economical decline, stagnation and civil wars set in, and the Imperials not only grabbed many of the faraway colonies, but also imposed a puppet regime and established a military base at Qulca. During the War of the Last Coalition, Imperial grip on the League had loosened; instead, Kokol Itza centralized the League around itself further, although remaining on friendly, lickspittle terms with the Empire. In recent times, though, the League grew more rebellious, as nationalists and anti-Imperialists demanded action. War with it is probably a matter of time; its clandestine stages have in fact already begun, as Kokolan spies have been inciting riots in the old Itzan colonies, while privateers begun attacking Imperial commerce in the islands to the west.
Pralerqa: another seafaring Amerind state, like a hybrid of Incans and Polynesians. Use to be a great colonial power, but was gradually reduced to its present state by the Empire. A puppet government was imposed, but overthrown soon after the beginning of the War of the Last Coalition. The Pralerqans however were wise to sign peace as soon as things begun to go wrong for the Coalition, and as such were spared - for now. One day, the Empire will get to this one as well, but it has better things to do closer to home.
Hilssada Dependancy: much like Strydin, this Inca-lookalike (with some Ethiopian and Zulu elements, most notably the black skin common in central and southern Homeland) state was once a great empire, the greatest of the Homeland, but proboked the more advanced Imperials too much and, despite brave resistance and occasional victories, was crushed and put under a military protectorate. Control over it likewise loosened recently, only here the guerrila war is even worse, due to secret Pralerqan and Kokolan support and the apparent geniality of the rebel leader. Several northern cities have been captured by the rebels, and an entire legion was recently eliminated in a well-planned attack. This has prompted the deployment of a powerful punitive force to the region; it is about to arrive now.
Kwapari Empire: a mixture of Zulus and Maoris, this is a very militant power indeed, but until recently it was consumed by internicine strife. Now that it had been united by a single warchief, it has begun a crash-course modernization and the collection of an international mercenary force from the shards of various defeated armies, to the concern of nearby Imperial authorities but nobody else... yet.
Drathinar: a pretty odd civilization with some similarities to Maya, Azteca, Japan and the pre-Mongol Uighur kingdom. It is notorious for its blood-cult, though really it isn't half as terrible as rumours say. Aside from that, it is most similar not to any OTL nation, but to a more militant version of LINES II Shalamari with its mysticism and theocracy. Even then, it isn't awfully militant by this world's standards. It is the strongest power left sans the Empire itself, and was wise to consistantly ally with it, gaining much from this alliance. The hegemon power of the southern Eastern Continent, it is now looking forward to further expansion - perhaps even at the expense of the stumbling Empire.
The two states to its east, Trinahari and Staaltha, are very culturally similar to it and in regards similar to each other, but they are more primitive and crude than Drathinar, and still have elements of their traditional culture (most resemblant of India) preserved. These are Drathinari puppet states.
Vaalda: generally this is a weak, unimportant neutral power, and most resembles a more Hindified and Shalamarified Tibet.
Rastarikarta: a state somewhat similar to India or Egypt, ruled by a Gurkha-liked military aristocracy. This is a traditional Imperial ally that gained independence from the now-destroyed Jataverna Empire of middle Eastern Continent.
Taracamiba: A state resembling a more advanced Brazilian/Venezuelan/Argentinean Amerind civilization - far more advanced, in fact. It gradually arose not without Imperial help, and helped crush the Second Jataverna Empire during the War of the Last Coalition, but now is rapidly becoming one of the Empire's worst enemies, as border clashes and anti-Imperial riots intensify.
Commentscomplaintssuggestionsquestionmark.
Kasar Khanate: western Mainland, Russo-Mongolic with elements of China/Khazaria (mandate of heaven, elaborate ceremony), Hungary (especially in the northeastern, core regions) and Japan (very martial culture, peaceful coexistance of two religions). It is, however, most similar to a more developed and ceremony-filled version of the late Golden Horde/China of the 1910-20s. Imperial authority is rapidly disintegrating except the spiritual one, and warlordism is widespread as various generals (whether of noble birth or not) are on the brink of a new civil war, with the present Prime Minister, former Hundred-thousander (commander of 100,000 men) Timur-Baghatur increasingly ailing and incapable of holding the country together. The country's most prosperous southern provinces have been damaged during the War of the Last Coalition, the post-war rebellions and the reprisals thereafter. Officials are either corrupt, either killed by warlords, either both. Trade is collapsing. Droughts stalk the land.
Lapakkan Realm: more than anything else this state resembles mid-20th century Finland with some early 19th century Greece thrown in (though culturally they're also a bit resemblant of the Hittites; it is more of a coincidence than anything else, though). Having for long been ruled by the Kasar Khanate, the Lapakkans rose up with Imperial assistance during the War of the Last Coalition and won their independence; however, the state is unstable, the various revolutionary leaders are squabbling with each other, and the present Imperial-imposed prince is ever more unpopular amongst the masses, as is the entire old order. Nationalists also want to unite the entire Lapakkan peninsula.
Tekkean Republic and Akkoran Free State (to the southwest of Lapakka from north to south; colours unavailable): two ethnically-Lapakkan minor states that are even more complete puppets of the Empire and were such even before the War of the Last Coalition. These are different from Lapakkan Realm due to their republicanism; there is scarcely any warlordism here, but crime and corruption are flourishing, as is legal and illegal commerce. The urban poor are very discontent, and demoist (socialist) agitators are gaining support despite all the Empire-backed reprisals...
Telleric Confederacy: similar to a more Spartan Swiss Confederation. Is fiercely independent, though the Empire has not attacked it mostly because its rather impoverished and useless.
Vallarian Republic: Telleric Confederacy's little brother - a minor Imperial puppet state, rather similar to OTL Andorra or Monaco, but more militant due to border clashes with Telleric Confederacy and the previous Independence War.
Strydin Dependancy: vaguely West Slavic (with some similarities with LINES II Kehexou as well), but more seafaring, this is a shard of a greater Strydin Empire. It has been a military protectorate of the Empire for many decades since the Second Strydin War, but during the War of the Last Coalition greater internal autonomy was granted. This is being reconsidered now, as the puppet government and the Imperial forces stationed there seem to be chronically incapable of dealing with the popular guerrila insurgency that has been ongoing for almost a decade now and spreading into Imperial territories. The puppet government or parts of it are suspected of treason and assistance to these rebels.
Merchant League of Kokol Itza: most similar to a mix of Venice and the Mayans (especially the ones in DisNES2), this League used to dominate the northern parts of Homeland (southwestern continent). Economical decline, stagnation and civil wars set in, and the Imperials not only grabbed many of the faraway colonies, but also imposed a puppet regime and established a military base at Qulca. During the War of the Last Coalition, Imperial grip on the League had loosened; instead, Kokol Itza centralized the League around itself further, although remaining on friendly, lickspittle terms with the Empire. In recent times, though, the League grew more rebellious, as nationalists and anti-Imperialists demanded action. War with it is probably a matter of time; its clandestine stages have in fact already begun, as Kokolan spies have been inciting riots in the old Itzan colonies, while privateers begun attacking Imperial commerce in the islands to the west.
Pralerqa: another seafaring Amerind state, like a hybrid of Incans and Polynesians. Use to be a great colonial power, but was gradually reduced to its present state by the Empire. A puppet government was imposed, but overthrown soon after the beginning of the War of the Last Coalition. The Pralerqans however were wise to sign peace as soon as things begun to go wrong for the Coalition, and as such were spared - for now. One day, the Empire will get to this one as well, but it has better things to do closer to home.
Hilssada Dependancy: much like Strydin, this Inca-lookalike (with some Ethiopian and Zulu elements, most notably the black skin common in central and southern Homeland) state was once a great empire, the greatest of the Homeland, but proboked the more advanced Imperials too much and, despite brave resistance and occasional victories, was crushed and put under a military protectorate. Control over it likewise loosened recently, only here the guerrila war is even worse, due to secret Pralerqan and Kokolan support and the apparent geniality of the rebel leader. Several northern cities have been captured by the rebels, and an entire legion was recently eliminated in a well-planned attack. This has prompted the deployment of a powerful punitive force to the region; it is about to arrive now.
Kwapari Empire: a mixture of Zulus and Maoris, this is a very militant power indeed, but until recently it was consumed by internicine strife. Now that it had been united by a single warchief, it has begun a crash-course modernization and the collection of an international mercenary force from the shards of various defeated armies, to the concern of nearby Imperial authorities but nobody else... yet.
Drathinar: a pretty odd civilization with some similarities to Maya, Azteca, Japan and the pre-Mongol Uighur kingdom. It is notorious for its blood-cult, though really it isn't half as terrible as rumours say. Aside from that, it is most similar not to any OTL nation, but to a more militant version of LINES II Shalamari with its mysticism and theocracy. Even then, it isn't awfully militant by this world's standards. It is the strongest power left sans the Empire itself, and was wise to consistantly ally with it, gaining much from this alliance. The hegemon power of the southern Eastern Continent, it is now looking forward to further expansion - perhaps even at the expense of the stumbling Empire.
The two states to its east, Trinahari and Staaltha, are very culturally similar to it and in regards similar to each other, but they are more primitive and crude than Drathinar, and still have elements of their traditional culture (most resemblant of India) preserved. These are Drathinari puppet states.
Vaalda: generally this is a weak, unimportant neutral power, and most resembles a more Hindified and Shalamarified Tibet.
Rastarikarta: a state somewhat similar to India or Egypt, ruled by a Gurkha-liked military aristocracy. This is a traditional Imperial ally that gained independence from the now-destroyed Jataverna Empire of middle Eastern Continent.
Taracamiba: A state resembling a more advanced Brazilian/Venezuelan/Argentinean Amerind civilization - far more advanced, in fact. It gradually arose not without Imperial help, and helped crush the Second Jataverna Empire during the War of the Last Coalition, but now is rapidly becoming one of the Empire's worst enemies, as border clashes and anti-Imperial riots intensify.
Commentscomplaintssuggestionsquestionmark.
North King
blech
- Joined
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Dark blue was originally intended to be roughly analogous to our India, sepcifically northern India, but I'm far too tired of arguing to press the point.
Don't really give a damn, in other words.
Don't really give a damn, in other words.
Swissempire
Poet Jester
Umm...... hello
North King
blech
- Joined
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What? I didn't start it out of irritation, das didn't start it out of busyness (I presume), and since no one else thought up much about it, they're really not entitled to start it.
Swissempire
Poet Jester
I would start it but i would fail
