Immortal Difficulty

[Acken]

When the balance is bad big changes are required ^^

Thanks for the suggestions. I like 3). If the current version is unsatisfying I'll try something like that.

Spoiler :

Right now:
-The opener gives 1 faith (on top of the original stuff) to help pantheon fundation. Since I also increased the base culture to +2 it comes fast enough even without a ruin. May go to +2 if unsatisfying.
-Mandate also reduces prophet cost and organized religion give culture to shrines and temples
-Religious tolerance is now buffed greatly to include follower beliefs but is instead the finisher and was replaced by a happiness policy giving based on the number of following cities
-Reformation policy also now gives a bonus to production, gold and goldenage every time a prophet is born based on the number of followers you have (with a cap)

 

[wayneb64]

I overstated the faith bonus a bit, but what I meant was post Tradition I am a few policies from Rationalism and I cannot afford at that point to start spending coin on CS (that comes much later for me), and those first two policies double my faith at that point as I don't have a religion yet and I can pretty much only afford to produce a cheap shrine in my expansion cities. That is roughly double if I didn't get a faith pantheon and those shines produce that extra faith all game for a very reasonable amount of hammers.

Not too long down the road the Temples will be built and with 50% more faith and half the hammer cost, again they are a good deal that will certainly pay for themselves by the end of the game. Once I can afford to start collection CSs then I like the first three policies of Patronage with the fourth as an emergency happiness relief.

The point is Piety is always in my Immortal games, Honor almost never, and Liberty rarely. The third Piety is 25% gold in all my cities instead of just my capitol with the Commerce opener.

 

[Acken]

Yeah but it seems you have more policies to play with. Which happens in slower games. Your choice, based on what you said, seems to not be really between Piety or Patronage or Commerce or Aesthetics.
If we assume you can take Piety and something else and still get rationalism and the ideology, then the debate is a lot different than if you are forced to take a mutually exclusive choice between Patronage and Piety.

 

[wayneb64]

I prefer the culture Pantheons so yeah, I get a lot of extra policies. The more the better. I suppose if I where to move to Deity I would have to leave some behind. And some wonders to so I think I will enjoy Immortal for a while.

 

[sixty4half]

Can't seem to win. Third try and I just feel that the computer is too fast. I'm always behind on score too, like 500 points. It's ridiculous how frustrating this difficulty has been. Just seems like Domination may be the only way to win, which is lame.

Don't worry about the score. When I made the move to immortal my end game score dropped from about 3-4K to 1800. I was #1 in Tech and 3rd-5th in every other category. I had about half as much military score as the two leaders. However; I was able to launch a spaceship in the 1930s which I was pretty proud of even though it isn't near as fast as some people have done it.

Pay more attention to the Victory Condition information page. It'll tell you a more accurate picture in regards to who's actually winning the game as apposed to who's racking up a score.

Score gets a huge bonus from World Wonders and the AI will ALWAYS have several more wonders than you do in Immortal, and more so in Diety.

 

[reddishrecue]

I recently got a domination victory on immortal difficulty with Askia. It started with a settler steal rush off of Suleiman and then proceeded to capture everyone else's capital after that. It was great, I had used the honor->commerce->autocracy.

 

[Grammer Jew]

I might have screwed up already. But I played like dour games so far. Warlord, Prince, Emperor, and now Immortal.

I barely beat emperor and I got really lucky as India.

So I started a game on Immortal as Poland. I am almost in the Renaissance Era. (I hope I spelled that right.) I have three cities. Lots of luxury resources. I am in a continent with Venice, Denmark, and the Mongols. I immediately formed a friendship with the Mongols.
But after like a hundred turns, both Venice and Denmark want me to declare war on the Mongols. Should I do it? Also how do I catch up? My cities are levels 10, 7, 6. While all their cities are levels 10-15.

My spy is stealing from Venice who is most ahead in Science. Also I have been getting 14 gold per turn from Denmark cause I gave them luxury resources. According to the lists, Denmark only has 1 happiness even after that. Should I stop giving them stuff so that they will be unhappy? Denmark is winning btw.

And last of all, the civs are all friendly with me. But I haven't actually tried to go toward a certain victory. I am right behind them in Science. I dunno even how to get a cultural victory. And I am not sure if I should try to destroy them. I am just about to get my winged hussars though so maybe.

 

[joncnunn]

Moderator Action: Two Immortal Difficulty threads merged

 

[reddishrecue]

I might have screwed up already. But I played like dour games so far. Warlord, Prince, Emperor, and now Immortal.

I barely beat emperor and I got really lucky as India.

So I started a game on Immortal as Poland. I am almost in the Renaissance Era. (I hope I spelled that right.) I have three cities. Lots of luxury resources. I am in a continent with Venice, Denmark, and the Mongols. I immediately formed a friendship with the Mongols.
But after like a hundred turns, both Venice and Denmark want me to declare war on the Mongols. Should I do it? Also how do I catch up? My cities are levels 10, 7, 6. While all their cities are levels 10-15.

My spy is stealing from Venice who is most ahead in Science. Also I have been getting 14 gold per turn from Denmark cause I gave them luxury resources. According to the lists, Denmark only has 1 happiness even after that. Should I stop giving them stuff so that they will be unhappy? Denmark is winning btw.

And last of all, the civs are all friendly with me. But I haven't actually tried to go toward a certain victory. I am right behind them in Science. I dunno even how to get a cultural victory. And I am not sure if I should try to destroy them. I am just about to get my winged hussars though so maybe.

You dont have to do something that will benefit others over you, if it doesn't benefit you then you dont have to do it.
If you're giving stuff to Denmark then Denmark should be giving stuff to you right back like its doing with 14 gpt in exchange for 2 luxuries.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

It's usually a mistake to steal from the tech leader, as they will have a defensive spy in their capital and you could lose yours. Choose the largest capital but not from science Civ #1. From the Renaissance onwards, cities next to mountains are likely to be more effective targets because of observatories.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Venice are pretty much always my go-to espionage victim when I need to level up my initial spy so I can spam coups pick up the pace

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

Me too, Enrico is very rarely the tech leader and almost always has a high pop city due to the start bias.

 

[Ookamikaze]

Beat Immortal with Ethiopia, Oval pangea, small, Science Victory. Had Monte and Khan next door too. I had 3 cities.

 

[Ookamikaze]

Ethiopia is a great defensive Civ if you just want to try for more peaceful win cons. Probably the most powerful defensive civ in the game.

 

[docbud]

I got screwed last night and tonight trying to play as immortal.

I just can't win at this level.

Tonight, for example, 17 World Wonders were gone by turn 110 (standard speed). Five pantheons were gone by turn 15.

China built Forbidden Palace in 200AD. Give me a break!

And I was playing as Inca with a ton of salt and by mountains. I swear--I was screwed over by turn 10.

Don't get me on the cheating. For example, last night: Siam and myself (playing as Poland) are neck and neck for a science victory. I pay three other AIs to declare war on Siam. And things are going well. Last city is about to fall in approximately five turns.

Then--Siam sends out a settler.

One turn before the last city goes down, Siam settles their new city (and astonishingly all their scientists are smuggled out with all the rocket parts).

Last city goes, and Siam wins because of the city they just settled.

How come I never see these "real" games in the videos that are posted (and those are diety)?

 

[docbud]

Apologies for my post being one of a complaint. I guess I get very frustrated trying to play at Immortal level.

 

[beetle]

I got screwed last night and tonight trying to play as immortal. I just can't win at this level.

FWIW, I had hit a wall with Immortal. I won a few games, but it was very much hit or miss, and really did not feel like I was progressing. Mostly on a lark, I bumped the difficulty up to Deity anyway. I relaxed my expectations, and had no qualms about hand picking weaker AI opponents.

My first Deity game was a DiploV using Sweden. It was sweet. I lost my next several games...

I still win less than half the time, but I enjoy the game more, and I don't find losing at Deity to be nearly as frustrating as losing at Immortal. The early game is much harder, but that increased competition really improved my focus. I never did win Immortal by CV or domination, but I have done so now at Deity.

So, somewhat counter-intuitively, I would encourage you to take things up a notch!

 

[docbud]

Thanks--beetle. I just may try that. Actually--I did play one Deity game, and I held my own. Never finished it though.

I was so frustrated last night with that Immortal game. The rest of the AIs were simply kicking my butt right out of the gate.

And maybe you're right. I may be less frustrated playing on Deity, as I will know in the back of my mind that it's the most difficult level.

I know there is no way I want to move back down to a lower level.

 

[reddishrecue]

I have gone to Deity and it isn't that easy. Winning on Deity has been really rare for me and did that once with Shoshone internal cargo ships scienceV.

 

[wayneb64]

You have to assume your not going to get most of the wonders, and some I never get, but based on start and if/when you can get ahead in science you can get some of the early and late wonders. Many games are come from behind, or even sometimes behind all game, but that's what makes Immortal so much more interesting. You will get run away freight trains and you get to figure out how to stop them.