Immortal University 90 - Hammurabi

[Robert FIN]

Third Attempt...Ended bc of our really nice neightbor you know who DoWed me and I ragequited. I feel like a loser. Sorry guys, I can't beat ur IMM map... I wan't to kick myself. I suck. I'm loser!!

 

[Ecori]

Third Attempt...Ended bc of our really nice neightbor you know who DoWed me and I ragequited. I feel like a loser. Sorry guys, I can't beat ur IMM map... I wan't to kick myself. I suck. I'm loser!!

Don't feel bad. This map is for several reasons brutal.

 

[Gumbolt]

Some advice for this map. yes some spoilers of the game.

Spoiler :

1. Attacking cities on hills with chariots is tough on immortal.
2. You should be able to worker steal and pillage resources. Pin Shaka down to a single city. You should be able to capture settled cities around Shakas capital.
2. The UU of Hammy will eat up most stacks he sends against you. Early archery is an option if things go bad.
3. The map maker has been a bit cruel putting Shaka so close with a uber strong start and no copper nearby.
4. HA rush? You have plenty of forest. The downside is Shaka Impi and likely early DOW.

Overall this is a start that forces you to play a certain way. Which is a shame really as I am not sure how much you learn.

I would like to know what changes were made to the original map.

 

[Hollow Bow]

@gumbolt

Spoiler :

Overall this is a start that forces you to play a certain way. Which is a shame really as I am not sure how much you learn.

Yeah I feel the same way.

This is my first serious attempt at immortal, and now on the third go, its 500AD, shake is down to 2 cities and about to be redeclared upon, and Sury just capitulated to me JUST as he finished teching engineering.
I think I will probably eek a win out of it if things keep going my way, but I don't feel the satisfaction I should be feeling from a first immortal victory. I basically feel 'hey I managed to outcheese shaka thanks to foreknowledge of the map '
Not sure how instructive it was.

 

[klonoklown]

Some advice for this map. yes some spoilers of the game.

Spoiler :

3. The map maker has been a bit cruel putting Shaka so close with a uber strong start and no copper nearby.

Overall this is a start that forces you to play a certain way. Which is a shame really as I am not sure how much you learn.

I would like to know what changes were made to the original map.

@ Gumbolt and others

Spoiler :

Absolutely no changes were made at all. No adding or deleting of resources, no movement of AI. Everyone can thank the RNG god's for this tough map. But hey it helps others learn, IMO. I think some times it takes you getting stomped to really learn different options in the game.

In my game, posted on page 2, this was really my first ever chariot rush attempt, which was tough b/c of shaka's capitol on a hill, but was doable on Emperor. (also ATM I only win about 60% of emperor games, so this wasn't easy for me either.)

So far, since I have been posting for IU, I have never made any changes to the maps. I don't like cooked maps, unless its for role playing reasons.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay so the map was unaltered. Not really a spoiler.

Spoiler :

I did play test trying a chariot rush. I took Shaka down to his capital but with 3 archers 12 chariots would of struggled.

I probably could of played on.

 

[klonoklown]

Okay so the map was unaltered. Not really a spoiler.

Spoiler :

I did play test trying a chariot rush. I took Shaka down to his capital but with 3 archers 12 chariots would of struggled.

I probably could of played on.

Spoiler :

Yeah taking Shaka's capital wasn't easy. I wish I was playing Egypt for a minute, War Chariots probably would have taken that capital down much easier!

 

[Izuul]

Spoiler :

You could probably choke Shaka pretty well here with Bowmen, but the problem with any kind of rush/choke on this map is commerce. If you tech straight to Archery you really delay Pottery and/or Writing, and a Chariot rush will cost a ton of hammers since Shaka's capitol is on a hill, and will also leave you really behind the 8-ball in terms of tech.

My personal choice here is to just peacefully expand to 4 cities early, maybe add 1-2 fishing villages later, and play for a Construction rush. So far I've gone AH (obviously) > Mining > BW > Pottery > Writing > Aesthetics and i was then able to trade for Alpha. I cottaged the 4 river tiles S of the cap as soon as i got pottery, and also chopped a library and ran 2 scientists. My GS is due in 1 turn, and I'm tempted to bulb Math since nobody else has it and will aid my Construction rush. The benefits of an Academy here don't seem huge, but i haven't really made up my mind yet.

I was also prepared to go Hunting > Archery as soon as i saw a red fist from Shaka, but that hasn't happened yet. I don't think Shaka is particularly scary here since we have access to Bowmen and Shaka likes to spam metal units.

 

[Hollow Bow]

@izuul

Spoiler :

Just choking early on with a warrior or 2 was enough to set him back on immortal, if you do it straight of the bat (the extra promotion and the large amount of forested hills around his capital make this possible), later adding a bowman or 2 (1800bcish) keeps him from roading up and developing his mines. then by 600BC the catapults/bowmen only had archers to contend with.
When I tried something similar to your approach as my first attempt, shaka just declared on me 1280BC with 2 axes and 2 impis crossing the border before bowmen were in place. hunting/archery takes quite a few turns to get, so you either beeline it, or beeline alpha and trade for it ASAP.

 

[Robert FIN]

Don't feel bad. This map is for several reasons brutal.

AARRGGHHH!! I can't resist!! I have to do 4th attempt today. I feel like loser if I can't beat one stupid map..

 

[klonoklown]

AARRGGHHH!! I can't resist!! I have to do 4th attempt today. I feel like loser if I can't beat one stupid map..

Keep trying Robert Fin, this stuff surely didn't come easy to me either when I was a noble/prince player. Persistence my friend, show that punk who's boss!

Continued progress: Emperor 500 AD

Spoiler :

After taking Shaka out I decided to regroup and get some commerce going. Early game tech path went a lot like Izuul's I believe. AH>Mining>BW>Pottery>Writing> Cathy got an early Alpha so I picked up Fishing and Hunting from her I believe, then Aesthetics > and of course Alpha, rest of back fill.

Peacefully expanded to 15 cities, tech path continued, currency>lit>math (was hoping for trade but didn't happen) traded for poly somewhere in there and finally music, got my GA, then COL>CS> more back fill like calendar, and feudalism, and probably some more trades.

Took advantage of the marble available to us, Parthenon in one city, Great Lib and NE in Shaka's capital. Ran GA, switched to HR, Beau, Caste, and Pacifism. Generated 2 GS during that time period, also 1 more before hand and another after. One academy in my capital, (had 5 RS cottages), then bulbed paper, and double bulbed education.

I have a pretty decent tech lead, and my production and commerce is really going to take off when all my cities really get up and going. Haven't decided yet if I want to war with Cuirs, or Cannons to take more land and decide VC from there...

Current shape of empire

 

[Izuul]

@izuul

Spoiler :

Just choking early on with a warrior or 2 was enough to set him back on immortal, if you do it straight of the bat (the extra promotion and the large amount of forested hills around his capital make this possible), later adding a bowman or 2 (1800bcish) keeps him from roading up and developing his mines. then by 600BC the catapults/bowmen only had archers to contend with.
When I tried something similar to your approach as my first attempt, shaka just declared on me 1280BC with 2 axes and 2 impis crossing the border before bowmen were in place. hunting/archery takes quite a few turns to get, so you either beeline it, or beeline alpha and trade for it ASAP.

Spoiler :

The only way i would've been in trouble is if Shaka did the "dagger" attack thing where you only get a couple turns of warning, but those attacks are fairly rare. With normal war plotting i would've had plenty of time to pick up Archery and get some Bowmen in place. I also had a chariot sitting around the border keeping an eye out for suspicious activity. So far he's been perfectly content to expand (now 8 cities) in my game.

I was able to trade for Alpha around 1000BC and then back fill old techs. I ended up bulbing Math, teching HBR and Construction, and I've just begun whipping and chopping my cat/ele army. It shouldn't take too long b/c almost all of my forests are pre-chopped and ready to go.

Oh, Shaka actually got the Oracle in my game and took Currency!

 

[rfcfanatic]

Yep, Keep trying! It took me 8-9 failures until I was able to win IU 89 De Gaulle.

 

[Robert FIN]

Thanks for all support and nice words. I'm doing now the 4th attempt and at least you know who didn't DoW to me and I got Oracle and got CoL. I'm gonna kick some AI butts

 

[klonoklown]

Continued Progress: 1310 AD Emperor

Spoiler :

My initial Lib and attack dates probably would have been better but I didn't realize I didn't switch into Beaucracy until I hit Lib and took MT. But heres the start of the buildup of cuirs at sury's door, couple turns later before I attacked he peace vassaled. (he only had about 7 cities, my power ratio was much higher)





I switched my victim to Cathy since she was small, around 5 cities, and behind in tech. Took two of her cities and she vassaled. Didn't realize giggles declared on her that previous turn, but no big deal, he was up next anyways!

Took one of giggles cities and on the way for more. Cities aren't the best suited for mass cuir production but thank the RNG god's for slavery!!! Next write up should be to the end, have to go take care of my sick girl friend.

Just another pic from where I stopped.

 

[Dubioza]

Hellow

So I decided to join in after finishing latest NC game. Cause it has option to play on Monarch and cause I didn't read spoilers here. Good luck to everyone still playing!

Monarch, normal, no huts/events

Spoiler Settings :

Spoiler :

Didn't saw anything useful with first warrior move and didn't want to loose a turn or few by moving settler, so partially blind SiP'd hoping for the best LOL

Spoiler image :

Ok, got 2nd food in BFC. 6 riverside grasslands, some production and lots of forests. Not bad. First research definitely AH. First warrior move was 1S cause I wanted to get on that hill for better view:

Spoiler image :

Hope there's some food near that marble! Nope, but I see someone's borders:

Spoiler image :

Crap!

Spoiler image :

Even I, with my 6 games so far can say that I don't like that! Well, I guess it's time for first defeat...to make the matter worse, I just watched Chris play with Shaka and dang do I like those Impis!

Spoiler I hope it's ok to link that :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sprHJrGcEBQ

Dang, he's way too close!!

Spoiler image :

Next research Mining-BW. Met Surya on T14 east of Shaka.

Spoiler image :

Spoiler image :

And Catherine on T18 further east. Both creative. I hope they're not too close! Well, they both have scouts, so I hope they're not!

Spoiler image :

Spoiler image :

Hmm, I both like and don't like what I see.

Spoiler image :

More don't then do like it, cause it's a bit far and it'd be hard to get there before Shaka does. Met Darius on T24 somewhere north.

Spoiler image :

And found Surya's borders north on T34.

Spoiler image :

T35 BW finally finished. Next research: Pottery. I see no copper nearby, one in Shaka's capital and one near FP's too far away....or is it? LOL I don't see few coastal tiles north of my capital but it doesn't look like it's up there. We have horses nearby, but they're useless against Impis..

Spoiler image :

Then I checked out his UU:

Spoiler image :

And my UU:

Spoiler image :

Hmm, and found out that we have (natural?) early counter for his UU...well, at least defensive one. So I quickly switched from Pottery to Hunting-Archery. Or do I still have time for Pottery before that.....hmmm...I dunno...

Some options are opening now...to settle in his face with pig in 1st ring would have to be on hill 1N of pig. Long road would have to be made, lots of workers, all forest around both cities chopped for Bowmans after Archery is done. Cause I guess I'm first he'll attack.
And next city between copper and gold or 1W of that to build attacking force...well, he has copper, so I don't know what good would axes vs. axes be...uff, hard one. What to use in attack against axes? Swords? So IW then? Grrr...So much to do, and I guess I don't have time for all of it.

Build order was worker-3 warriors-settler, with chop settler will be finished one turn sooner and overflow into worker. Worker improved both food res., connected them and continued road on wine and toward horses. Now got back to chop.

Time to sleep anyways, will continue tomorrow...any advice VERY welcome! LOL

EDIT: Added save.

 

[rfcfanatic]

@klonoklown

Spoiler :

How did you get Lib so early with so little amount of cottages and so large amount of farms?

 

[Gumbolt]

@klonoklown

Spoiler :

How did you get Lib so early with so little amount of cottages and so large amount of farms?

Spoiler :

It's emperor. Shaka had 2 gold resources. 1040ad is not that early for lib on immortal it can go pre 800bc. The difference is most players hold out for a bigger tech. Why take nationalism when you can have steel or med?

 

[Pangaea]

Liberalism before 800BC? That's early!

 

[klonoklown]

@klonoklown

Spoiler :

How did you get Lib so early with so little amount of cottages and so large amount of farms?

Spoiler :

Yeah Gumbolt is right, its not too early. I only ran 5 riverside cottages in my capital. The two golds definitely helped, mainly I focused on running scientists so I could bulb techs in the lib route. Also building wealth when no infrastructure was needed in cities helps to keep the science slider high. I always do binary research.

Also taking Shaka out allowed me to expand to 15 cities, more cities usually more power. I say usually because its not always the case, you have to make sure the cities are at least paying for themselves and hopefully contributing to your whole empire.

BTW I forgot to switch into Beaucracy until I actually took Lib at 1040 AD or whatever, so it probably would have been a bit earlier if I hadn't made that mistake. Damn acid reflux disease was bothering me when I was playing yesterday!