Interception New "Air Defense Only" Concept - Draft 1

[Stalker0]

There has been talk about changing the interception concept. This was an idea we had batted around several months ago but never finished up. I am going to flesh out a version of the concept for more discussion on discord.

The general idea is around our current "air defense" concept. This proposal will utilize that concept more fully. We will also remove the "attack stopping" power of interception in favor of "damage reduction" from air attacks. This will make interception less all or nothing, its more of a consistent weaking to your overall air power rather than either a non-factor or completely shutting air down.

New Interception Concept

• % interception chances are removed: Interception "always works"
• Interception is still generated by promotions as it is now.
• Interception now provides 2 benefits:
  • Increases units air defense: meaning a plane will take more damage when attacking that unit.
  • % damage reduction: The attacked unit will take less damage from the plane.
• Interception "charges": Just as now, interception works once per attack and is then used up for the round. Either another intercepting unit takes over, or interception penalties are removed. Certain promotions can allow a unit to intercept an additional time just as it works today.
• Interception always uses the "strongest option", multiple forms of interception don't stack. this is unchanged.
• Adding new term "Patrolled". A unit that is patrolled is under the radius of an intercepting unit and gains its bonuses if attacked by a plane.
• Air Sweeps: functionally work exactly the same as today. It knocks out the effects of an intercepting unit, potentially dealing and taking damage in the process.

Thematically: The idea is to think of planes more of a squadrons than a single unit. In this concept, interception rarely stops the entire squadron, but instead kills and/or turns back a portion of the units. This is equivalent to "dropping less bombs and doing less damage" and "the unit takes more damage".

Promotion Changes
Ace Pilot I: Patrolled units get +25% damage reduction and +20 Air Defense versus planes.
Ace Pilot II: Patrolled units get +25% damage reduction and +20 Air Defense versus planes.
Ace Pilot III: Patrolled units get +25% damage reduction and +20 Air Defense versus planes. +1 operating range.
Ace Pilot IV: Patrolled units get +20 Air Defense. +1 Operation Range. +1 interception.

Interceptor I: Patrolled units get +15% damage reduction and +10 Air Defense versus planes.
Interceptor II: Patrolled units get +15% damage reduction and +10 Air Defense versus planes.
Interceptor III: Patrolled units get +15% damage reduction and +10 Air Defense versus planes.
Interceptor IV: Patrolled units get +15% damage reduction and +10 Air Defense versus planes.

Air Penetration I: -30% damage reduction and -20 air defense to attacked unit.
Air Penetration II: -30% damage reduction and -20 air defense to attacked unit.

Evasion: Unchanged (Air Defense is halved during an air strike).

Stealth: +50 hp. -25% damage received during an air strike. -20% damage reduction and -15 air defense to attacked unit.

Air Defense I-II: Unchanged.


Example
3 bombers attack a landship within 3 of an Anti-Aircraft Gun and is in within range of an intercepting triplane. The AA gun has interceptor IV and the triplane has ace pilot III.

The first bomber attacks (and would do 20 damage normally lets say). The triplane intercepts first as it has the "strongest" interception. The bombers damage is reduced by 75% (bomber deals 5 damage). The landship has a total air defense of 3 (base) + 60 (promotions) = 63. The bomber takes 63 damage.

The second bomber attacks and would do 20 damage as well. This time the AA gun intercepts. The damage is reduced by 60% (bomber deals 8 damage). the landship has 3 + 40 = 43 air defense. The bomber takes 43 damage.

When the third bomber attacks there is no interception. The bomber deals the 20 damage, and takes 3 damage for the landships innate air defense.

 

[azum4roll]

Since the interceptor's CS is no longer factored in, what's the point of upgrading them?

 

[Stalker0]

Since the interceptor's CS is no longer factored in, what's the point of upgrading them?

It helps against air sweeps, otherwise your interceptors will get ripped up by air sweeping fighters.

 

[Rekk]

It helps against air sweeps, otherwise your interceptors will get ripped up by air sweeping fighters.

For air units, sure. But ground units don't take damage from air sweeps.

 

[Stalker0]

For air units, sure. But ground units don't take damage from air sweeps.

Sure but ground units get extra range to their interception when they upgrade, a significant boost. and of course become more resistant to things trying to kill them.

 

[Stalker0]

pinging this one for visibility, so if there are any more thoughts on it.

 

[GeneralAmadeus]

I like the idea. What would happen if a air sweep is performed in range of a fighter with Ace Pilot III?

 

[Stalker0]

I like the idea. What would happen if a air sweep is performed in range of a fighter with Ace Pilot III?

Same thing that happens today (assuming the APIII fighter is on interception). The air sweeper and the defending fighter would do a round of combat and give damage to each other, and then the interception (which in this case is 75% damage reduction and +60 air defense) would get removed for taht round.

Functionally there is no difference in how air sweeps work in this version.

 

[Stalker0]

now that the congress is over I think its worth doing some more look into this idea, to try and get it proposal ready.

 

[Jdoug312]

This sounds like a pretty big nerf to fighters to me. Could you (or someone) implement this on your personal game and chart some data on the effects this has on the air war as a whole?

I like the current implementation of interception better. Losing one of my bombers because I underestimated the enemy's air defenses feels like a proper gut punch, and wiping out enemy bombers with my fighters is satisfying + feels like I'm making a real dent in the air war.

Would someone be willing to update the aircraft unit icons from individual planes to a squadron of them that gets smaller as damage to the unit is accrued? That would be more satisfying than the single plane icons for units, were this to pass as a proposal.

 

[Diomedes_]

I really like this idea! I wish I had seen it before making that pretty bad proposal to make stealth bombers immune from interception from triplanes. This is a much cleaner solution and more accurately gets at the problems I actually have with the interception mechanic.

I assume in this model the stealth promos would just reduce damage taken from fighters/AA instead of decreasing interception probability?

 

[Stalker0]

I assume in this model the stealth promos would just reduce damage taken from fighters/AA instead of decreasing interception probability?

This was what I put in for the stealth in the OP:

Stealth: +50 hp. -25% damage received during an air strike. -20% damage reduction and -15 air defense to attacked unit.

 

[Diomedes_]

My bad for missing it!

 

[azum4roll]

The base air defense numbers need to be changed first/alongside. Currently the ones on early units are less significant than the random amount of damage (0-4) added to them. The random damage isn't reduced by Stealth and Evasion promotions either.

And then in Atomic/Information, base air defense can suddenly rise to 15-35, making the random damage insignificant in return. With or without this proposal, bombers/heavy bombers are going to get hurt a lot when attacking whether there's interception or not. Evasion or Air Penetration is essentially a must have (currently only Evasion).

Why did you stack an additive modifier and TWO multiplicative modifiers to damage received in the Stealth promotion? It's unlikely they receive any damage at all (other than the random damage) if there's no interception.
Air Penetration is similar with an additive modifier and a multiplicative modifier stacked.

 

[Jdoug312]

If the ultimate goal is to buff the bomber unit class, I think that's a great idea. Imo they should be at least as useful as tanks. Not on a 1:1 unit count, because I know that part of the balance for planes is in the ability to stack several of them. But where as tanks have real no counter, planes have sam units, fighters, and the air defense promotions. Sam units and fighters are filling their niches though, so I don't think that should be altered.

Either a bump in rcs, or chopping ground units' air defense (preferred solution) would give bombers that extra boost to capability without dulling the air war like what I'd imagine nerfing fighters would do.

 

[Stalker0]

Currently the ones on early units are less significant than the random amount of damage (0-4) added to them.

Wait this is intended? I've been reporting this as a bug for months....it didn't used to do that, it used to be the air defense was the damage you took straight up.

 

[azum4roll]

Wait this is intended? I've been reporting this as a bug for months....it didn't used to do that, it used to be the air defense was the damage you took straight up.

Then you would take no damage against Renaissance units, which has clearly never been the case.

 

[FinMc]

If the ultimate goal is to buff the bomber unit class, I think that's a great idea. Imo they should be at least as useful as tanks. Not on a 1:1 unit count, because I know that part of the balance for planes is in the ability to stack several of them. But where as tanks have real no counter, planes have sam units, fighters, and the air defense promotions. Sam units and fighters are filling their niches though, so I don't think that should be altered.

Either a bump in rcs, or chopping ground units' air defense (preferred solution) would give bombers that extra boost to capability without dulling the air war like what I'd imagine nerfing fighters would do.

This suggestion makes me want to nerf tanks (preferably making them more expensive/supply cost).

Bombers feel pretty good right now and once I shut down their interceptors the war pretty much ends. Bombers destroy their ranged DPS and then my tanks stomp everything.

Buffing bombers from where they are now would make Autocracy absolutely dominate.

 

[Jdoug312]

This suggestion makes me want to nerf tanks (preferably making them more expensive/supply cost).

I'd support this if you wanted to make the proposal for it. I agree with your point on the planes too; I was just looking at a solution involving planes since OP wanted to change the current air landscape. They haven't articulated a reason to change it though, beyond personal preference I guess.

 

[Stalker0]

Buffing bombers from where they are now would make Autocracy absolutely dominate.

Why are you going bombers as autocracy? Just amass infinite zeroes that all have air repair and just never stop attacking. Heck the interceptions don't even phase zeroes all that much.