Is anyone else appalled by the Eurocentrism in Civ?

[Sonereal]

-history stuff-

Whoops, I was thinking of the wrong Empire earlier.

When referring to it as a singular noun, it is 'Byzantium'. - 'Byzantine' is a possessive noun (I think thats the proper terminology for it), as in 'Byzantine Empire'.

Three years of Latin and I should really know that by now.

 

[Reginleif]

I disagree with that comment

 

[TommyVern]

Greece should've been taken out? Are you kidding me? You're right Alexander the Great wasn't one of the greatest conquerors of all recorded history. Hint: That last part is sarcasm.


Don't worry, I'll call the Waahhhh-mbulance for you and we can stop on the way and get you a Wahhhhh-burger and some french-cries.

 

[bernlin2000]

Is anyone else appalled by the Eurocentrism in Civ?

No, next question?
Oh, time's up, Civ's coming!

 

[Monyu]

I don't really care about Euro-centrism, Afrocentrism or whatever. This game is being released in a western audience of course it is going to be euro-centric. If you go to Asia everything is Asia-centric for example you never learn about Chinese and Indian astronomers that outdate a lot of European ones and vice versa.

 

[Takeda]

oh look, it's this thread again

the only thing this thread ever managed to firmly establish is that Johnny Smith is an ignorant buffoon

Moderator Action: Flaming
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[sucksforyou112]

Eurocentrism is da BOMB!
Whats wrong with that? Sue me.

 

[johny smith]

Eurocentrism is da BOMB!
Whats wrong with that? Sue me.

Again who said it was wrong? The point it is. That is all.

 

[johny smith]

I am close to the 2000 count. I need to post something else. I probably will be away for a while since the game does not have the SDK included. I am trying to make a mod now that every era you play a new civ. I know some people would not understand that civilizations are not genetic and there people have not been around for 6000 years. It is sad indeed. If someone wants to change that Fabula Terra is the idea to change this. If anyone is seriously interested the thread is here.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=375930

 

[sucksforyou112]

Again who said it was wrong? The point it is. That is all.

Ok. I have european ancestry. I was raised in a european manner predominantly, and thus I am more comfortable with and prefer european culture(s). Thus, I am happy with the eurocentrism. I cannot speak for the majority of the people who buy these games- those in western cultures- but this is my explaination for why it is in the game, and is exactly like what everyone else has been saying.

 

[Schalke 04]

In human kind's history European/Western culture surely is just a side step. However, in the light of the modern world, Western culture is dominating. As this game is released today, it is normal that it represents actual Zeitgeist (I just had to include a German word... ).

In these days (and surely in the next decades) Western culture is going to dominate world's history. What happens in, let's say 40 years is not known yet. Maybe a chinese produced Civilization franchise will have a different emphasis...

However, even if you consider the period of time where Western culture has had an influence on world's history as short, it will always be recognized as a major influence factor, just because it happened during a time period, where progress was being made in a very fast pace...

 

[Takeda]

Ok. I have european ancestry. I was raised in a european manner predominantly, and thus I am more comfortable with and prefer european culture(s). Thus, I am happy with the eurocentrism. I cannot speak for the majority of the people who buy these games- those in western cultures- but this is my explaination for why it is in the game, and is exactly like what everyone else has been saying.

The game is eurocentric, but only marginally so. Johny Smith is attempting to argue that everything from the tech tree to the modern age art style is eurocentric, which makes absolutely no sense.

He's seems to be arguing that if the industrial revolution occurred in China, rather than Britain, then we'd all be living in pagoda skyscrapers today. There's a reason western standards have spread throughout the globe, and that reason isn't culture.

 

[johny smith]

The game is eurocentric, but only marginally so. Johny Smith is attempting to argue that everything from the tech tree to the modern age art style is eurocentric, which makes absolutely no sense.

He's seems to be arguing that if the industrial revolution occurred in China, rather than Britain, then we'd all be living in pagoda skyscrapers today. There's a reason western standards have spread throughout the globe, and that reason isn't culture.

It is true with the tech tree. It is Eurocentric. Yes a lot of imperialism that probably will be reversed will happen in the future. And Americans will still be praising their past as being the real history. All I will say just because you watch TV in any particular country does not mean that is one truth to history.

 

[johny smith]

Ok. I have european ancestry. I was raised in a european manner predominantly, and thus I am more comfortable with and prefer european culture(s). Thus, I am happy with the eurocentrism. I cannot speak for the majority of the people who buy these games- those in western cultures- but this is my explaination for why it is in the game, and is exactly like what everyone else has been saying.

True. I played that enough sorry not interested in another. How many more posts do I need?

 

[Takeda]

It is true with the tech tree. It is Eurocentric. Yes a lot of imperialism that probably will be reversed will happen in the future. And Americans will still be praising their past as being the real history. All I will say just because you watch TV in any particular country does not mean that is one truth to history.

can you please explain what it is about the tech tree you find to be eurocentric? In two paragraphs of less please

 

[johny smith]

In human kind's history European/Western culture surely is just a side step. However, in the light of the modern world, Western culture is dominating. As this game is released today, it is normal that it represents actual Zeitgeist (I just had to include a German word... ).

In these days (and surely in the next decades) Western culture is going to dominate world's history. What happens in, let's say 40 years is not known yet. Maybe a chinese produced Civilization franchise will have a different emphasis...

However, even if you consider the short period of time where Western culture had an influence on world's history, it will always be considered as a major influence factor, just because it happened during a time period, where progress was being made in a very fast pace...

European Imperialism would be a major factor yes. But everyone has contributed. And the game chooses to focus more on Europe and America. I never said that Europe did not have their Imperialistic period. The Eurasian theory is like compared Martians on to the inhabitants of Venus though. Broad groups that never existed. Even the definition of Western culture is really vague, but with civ since it lacks any real details on the subject then it can be swept under a vague rug.

 

[johny smith]

can you please explain what it is about the tech tree you find to be eurocentric? In two paragraphs of less please

Uh lets see. Stone Age America techs are not represented at all. Are they just stupid for not using metal? 3 more posts needed.

 

[johny smith]

I am about there with the 2000 post count and this thread will be locked soon I imagine. If civ wants to represent how any culture developed technological that did not use the wheel for transportation then tree would need to thrown out at the beginning. I still can not get past trapping coming after animal husbandry. The game can compromise everything in order to balance units or improvements even though it makes no logical sense.

 

[Takeda]

Uh lets see. Stone Age America techs are not represented at all. Are they just stupid for not using metal? 3 more posts needed.

Oh, that's what you mean. That's not so much eurocentrism as Eurasia-centrism. There can only be one tech tree, and it broadly reflects the standard technological arc followed by most civilizations. Given that certain civilizations discovered/we're exposed to certain techs at slightly different times. What more could you ask for?

 

[johny smith]

Oh, that's what you mean. That's not so much eurocentrism as Eurasia-centrism. There can only be one tech tree, and it broadly reflects the standard technological arc followed by most civilizations. Given that certain civilizations discovered/we're exposed to certain techs at slightly different times. What more could you ask for?

Ok where is the gunpowder of the Chinese or Damascus Steel of the Arabs. Where is the improved Arab technology versus backwards Europe in Middle Ages? Everything continues through time as if Europe was the most influential in the world.