Can you give a specific example of that?
Is anyone else appalled by the Eurocentrism in Civ?
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Can you give a specific example of that?
To be honest, I've been against this since people were clamoring for it back in the days of Civ III. I don't want to have to do empire hopping. I want to pick my civilization and stick with it from beginning to end. Part of the appeal of the series to me has always been "build an empire to stand the test of time" as the original Civ I box proudly proclaimed, not "build a bunch of empires whenever the game boots you out of office". Making my fictional nation outlast all real, historical ones is part of the fun for me.
Could you give examples of events during Roman empire which were as important and widespread in influence and did not originate from Rome in any way?
You would be hard pressed. Roman influence did not end at the borders of Rome, knowledge of Rome and it's legions being there had deep impact on societies beyond their borders.
Or minor detail how Roman empire forged foundations for much of modern world. Where they went, they took their knowledge with them. Much of this knowledge was lost after the fall, but not all of it.
Well, if you think that Chinese history is very introverted it is not surprising. It grew, reached roughly modern size and... Clammed up.
Arabia in turn is noted through Babylon for example. While Arabian influence should not be belittled, it is bit too far in the past for us to make very good civilizations from it. Sumers, babylons... Most would be just copypasted versions of each other. They had too little distinction at that time. Perhaps partially because our knowledge of that time is limited, perhaps because limitations of technology forced them to similar mold.
It would not make sense to build those civilizations and desperately try to invent some differences to make them distinct.
After this, Arabia has not had huge impact on world until age of Islam, when from it emerged forces to compete with... European powers over real estates of Middle East.
It was important as trade route, but then again... We already have this in Arabia in Civ5.
Of course, we could add glorious Inuit Civilization, but how much work and imagination you would have to use to flesh it out into viable civilization in scale of those which already are in the game?
Name another group that was so good at rape pillage and generally screwing people over long distances as much as the Europeans.
Zhahz
PC Gamer
I'm actually appalled by threads like this where people are getting all bent out of shape over data in a game.
And India+China... how could you forget them?
Suho1004
Warlord
No offense to the original poster, but "appalled" and "enraged" are not generally terms I use to describe my emotional reactions to video games. I have noticed that Civ does tend to be Western-oriented (what an interesting turn of phrase), but to be honest this has never really bothered me. As long as the game is fun, I think I'll be OK.
As a percentage of total civilisations Europe is the most under represented continent.
Besides shouldn't the 19 civs be the civs which most contributed to civilisation (arts, science, mathematics, economics, philosophy, political theory, invention), not where they lived, what ethnicity or skin colour they were,or how much land they conquered.
Besides shouldn't the 19 civs be the civs which most contributed to civilisation (arts, science, mathematics, economics, philosophy, political theory, invention), not where they lived, what ethnicity or skin colour they were,or how much land they conquered.
India is most under represented
Akka
Moody old mage.
Eurocentrism in Civ simply reflect the REALITY of European influence on the world.
Stop the PC crap. The whole, entire, world has been under European domination at a time or another, if not outright European occupation. European ideas have shaped the world culture, and European technology have taken over the whole world.
It's pretty normal to have a strong eurocentrism. It's what actually happened in history.
And by the way, I see that the OP has made a single trolling post and never posted afterward. I think it speaks of itself and doesn't need any more explanation.
Stop the PC crap. The whole, entire, world has been under European domination at a time or another, if not outright European occupation. European ideas have shaped the world culture, and European technology have taken over the whole world.
It's pretty normal to have a strong eurocentrism. It's what actually happened in history.
And by the way, I see that the OP has made a single trolling post and never posted afterward. I think it speaks of itself and doesn't need any more explanation.
CHEESE!
On a long nostalgia trip
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Couldn't Spain be a D2D civ?
No, I would have added more euro civs.
Like Spain instead of Iroquese.
You may be right about that. I was taking the inclusion of india as a civ to cover all of india, but yes the Indian subconient has many ancient and distinct empires which are never seen in civ, and I personally would be in favour several ancient Indian kingdoms instead of the post-1948 settlement India that is currently included (with Gandi as its perennial leader).
I just think civs should be judged by their merits to civilization, not their geographical, military or ethic features.
Altaria87
Chieftain
Also, there's the fact that, all you people opposing the 'Eurocentrism' are constantly quoting China and Arabia. Those two Civilizations are already in Civ.
My point being that, while China and the Arabs may have had a great effect, those are just two Civs, two Civs already in the game. Whereas Europe has many more countries in it, and thus more Civilizations. France, Germany and England combined may ahve had less effect than China on history, but there's three of them, and not one.
Name one non-European Civilization that had an effect on History that isn't ALREADY IN THE GAME.
Except the Mongols, but I also want them in.
My point being that, while China and the Arabs may have had a great effect, those are just two Civs, two Civs already in the game. Whereas Europe has many more countries in it, and thus more Civilizations. France, Germany and England combined may ahve had less effect than China on history, but there's three of them, and not one.
Name one non-European Civilization that had an effect on History that isn't ALREADY IN THE GAME.
Except the Mongols, but I also want them in.
ezzlar
Emperor
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Well, I am from Europe but that doesnt mean I want a too Eurocentric game.
And its a simulation. A simulation should allow all civs to compete for world dominance. Otherwise you could just get a message during year 1500 "Europeans have colonized your empire since it was not possible for you to develop gunpowder. Game over!"
And its a simulation. A simulation should allow all civs to compete for world dominance. Otherwise you could just get a message during year 1500 "Europeans have colonized your empire since it was not possible for you to develop gunpowder. Game over!"
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