Is there a hope of winning, or start new game?

[aluelkdf]

So here's the situation. I am playing as Inca, the map is continents standard size, the difficulty is emperor. The year is 1818 AD. Right now, I am at peace with everybody.

There are 2 continents, I took over most of my continent and I am 2nd place in score (score of 1189). 3rd place is the Byzantines with a score of 734. So I have 2nd place by a pretty significant margin. Byzantine is not a problem, the land area of my empire is over twice as large, and I have a pretty significant lead in science and a larger more modern military. Although, they could still put up a good fight for a while I'm confident I win a war with them.

So Inca (the civ I'm playing as) is #2, Byzantine is #3, all the civs below that are pretty much irrelevant as far as posing any threat.

My big problem is what to do about Korea. Korea is in first place and is on the other continent. The other continent is much larger than mine, so Korea hasn't completely taken over it yet, but they are already twice as big as me, have a score of 1635 (I'm only at 1189), and Korea is WAY ahead of me in science and military. Korea has about 8 WW2 bombers and several fighters. I just entered the modern era and haven't even researched flight yet. It's the late game now and I don't even know if it's possible for me to catch up and win the game.

So I'm wondering what I should do. I could attack Byzantine and try to expand and maybe catch up by growing my empire that way. But I only have 4 happiness so I can't really afford a war right now. And I would have to attack at least 1 or 2 city states, unless if I allied with them but I would rather spend gold upgrading units. Or I can just not expand at all and try in grow my cities and catch up that way. And either way, I feel that I would still never catch up to Korea no matter what I do.

Attacking Korea is pretty much out of the question. They are too far away, and with such a supieror navy and airforce (I don't even have an airforce yet), I wouldn't have a chance of winning even if I tried. And I am friendly with Korea so losing a war and making them angry just doesn't make sense.

I can really only think of one possible option. Hopefully Korea is going to go for a science victory. Their capitol is right on the ocean in a spot that I can easily access. So I can probably build a decent navy and airforce by the time Korea is ready to launch their spaceship (they don't even have Apollo program yet so I have a while to do this). I can sneak up to their capitol, drop a couple nukes stationed on carriers, and take the capitol in 1 turn. I probably wont be able to hold it for long, but I think it would destory their spaceship even if I lost the capitol after a few turns. Even though Korea will likely by 2-3 times more powerful than me, I think I can pull it off if Korea doesn't see it coming (and most likely they wont as we have been friendly all game).

I might be able to do this, but it's all hypothetical becasue I am counting on technology I don't even have yet. I will really need to push science and build a navy and airforce at the same time. And while I'm doing all this I would be working towards building my spaceship. I would have to plan everything perfectly for it to work. And it all hinges on Korea going for a science victory, which I don't know if they will or not (but I think chances are pretty good).

So do you guys think this is possible, or is the game already lost and I should just start a new one? Or, if it is possible to win, should I do something different from what I proposed? I attached some screenshots for more info if that helps.

 

[aluelkdf]

Here are a few more screenshots

 

[LostInTime]

That game is perfectly winnable. Stop military completely and focus on growth in your cities and infrastructure. Beeline Plastics for Research labs, and stock up on as many GS as you can. (Dunno if you have NE or not, but use scientists specialists in that city asap) 8 turns after getting RL in most cities, start burning scientists to get Hubble if possible, you can use Oxford to get here as well, or save it for later.

I would also go Order quickly as next SP, and get the 2nd there for 25% science with cities with factories, then complete Rationalism, or make it ready for completion so you can use the 2 free techs on the late and costly SS techs. I don't like that you haven't completed liberty or tradition, but I don't think you can afford to complete them now. (do liberty for a GS if you have an extra policy before completing Rationalism later)

My guess is if you do that, you should be able to get a science victory out of this game. You can also bribe korea into wars to slow them down etc.

(edit: your culture is really low... not sure if you can get Order policies and Rationalism both. Stick to rationalism unless you can get Hermitage and some culture up everywhere)

 

[Socrates99]

Do have some privateers or destroyers that used to be privateers? If you build a few battleships and send them with destroyers with the prize ships promotion you should be able to turn his navy against him really easily since the AI stinks at naval combat. I'd say wait for flight and outfit a carrier or two with a fighter on intercept and a couple bombers to do some damage with and do as much damage to his navy as possible turning as many ships as possible to your side. Once you control the seas use battleships to start working on their land units and cities while you use a few destroyers to escort a land force over. Hopefully by the time you get your land troops there you should have a safe beach to land on. If you really want to seal the deal send a settler with your army to found a city to be your home base on their continent. That way you'll be able to use GGs to create citadels and wreak havoc on their land units. Just make sure you have the money to buy a couple defence buildings with to protect your fledgeling city. I had a really similar situation a few games ago and almost gave up but prize ships can be a real game changer in human hands.

If all else fails and you want to stay peaceful prevent them from allying CSs with aluminum and buy all his aluminum from him. No aluminum=no science victory.

 

[aluelkdf]

Here is a saved game too.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Why are you friendly with korea? RA's will benefit them much more than you. Though you can still trade to relieve them of their money. Also if you pick up CS's, focus on taking theirs.

Science and Diplomacy victories are still very possible from here. Science was outlined above, but a bit of a war to maybe take out some outer cities wouldn't hurt, try to get others to dow him/ him to dow others too. Are you sure they are GWB's? AI seems to get more fighters, so no problem for artillery. Also note on the prizeships idea, bombers have a penalty vs. naval but otherwise good.

Diplo is also possible (dependant on CS's), and comes earlier in the tech tree so if you go though rationalism you'll beat him to a science vc. Requires a focus on gold and CS's though.

 

[aluelkdf]

Thanks for the advice. I probably can catch up with science, but I think I would need to do something to slow Korea down. Korea is already building research labs. Even if I belined, I wouldn't have plastic for another 20 turns. I'm 100% positive Korea has WW2 bombers, I saw them using the bomber when one of my ships was nearby.

I feel torn on what to do. I probably should attack his costal cities to slow him down, but I think he is strong enough to repel my attack and I will be wasting valubale recources on military units when I could be researching techs as fast as possible. But I feel like I need to do something to slow Korea down, and short of war I'm not sure what to do. Korea is already at war with Japan, Japan is holding their own but it's not slowing Korea down either. Mongolia just lost a war with Korea, so they aren't going to want to fight.

And you make a good point about being friendly with Korea. My logic was that Korea may sign RA's with somebody else and get the benefit anyway. So if Korea benefits from an RA, then it might as well be with me so that I can get some benefit too.

 

[Socrates99]

Two words. Aluminum denial. The AI is just dumb enough to trade away all their aluminum or to use it building units and completely locking themselves out of a SV. The really sad part is you can actually trade iron and horses in the deal to save yourself a little gold. Since he's at war with Japan he'll be building rocket artillery soon and you should be able to prevent him from building any ship parts as long as you keep checking on him every few turns or so.

 

[aluelkdf]

I just won the game (sort of). Korea quickly took over it's entire continent. They won a science victory in 1943. I went back to my 1928 save several times doing things slightly differently each time because I wanted to see if this game was winnable (even though I didn't win it the first time). Eventually I won the game.

From 1818 AD forward I pretty much had to ignore my military, I was secure where I was anyway. Korea was far away and I had a city state buffer between myself and Byzantine. I teched as fast as I could the entire time, and built spaceship factories as fast as I could. Starting around 1900 AD I did have to start focusing on the navy a little, but I had enough cities to do that while I focused on building the spaceship. While I was building my first spaceship parts I was also building/buying3 nukes, built 2 carrier and a couple battleships. In the 1930's AD I had to delay science and focus on gold for a few turns to rush buy some military units in order to stop Korea before they won.

I was able to build/buy everything I needed and move my navy to Korea's capitol just in time. Korea had it's last spaceship part in the capitol on the turn that I nuked it. I nuked the capitol three times over the course of 2-3 turns and was able to take the capitol and hold it for 3 turns. Once this happened, I focused shifted focus purley to production to finish up my last spaceship parts. Korea got its capitol back and I lost pretty much my entire navy (which was small and just barely enough to do the job anyway). But it was too late for Korea, it delayed Korea enough and I won a science victory in 1955. And thanks for the advice.

So this turned out to be a winnable game (at least theoretically when I asked the question in 1818AD, I did have to restart a few times from 1928AD, but it was winnable if everything was done right from 1818AD forward). Here are some cool screenshots.

 

[slapshot2119]

some other things you could have tried:
1.) (assuming G&K) if someone has a respectable science lead on you, relocate ALL your spies to his/her most populous cities - should decrease that gap by a bit.
2.) with Korea at war with Japan, combined with your happiness shortage for taking cities, perfect time for a war of attrition - bring units over and steal/disband his workers, pillage every tile especially in his capital. Along the same lines -> 3.)
3.) As luck would have it, Korea in this case seems to be a completely coastal empire. bring navy over and blockade trade routes - this combined with the pillaging in #2 would economically crush him.
4.) position military to snag his spaceship parts while they are moved to his capital.

 

[azzaman333]

An extremely efficient and effective way to kill an AI navy is submarines. As long as you don't leave them too close to AI ships, they can systematically take down massive navies with little to no losses. Leaves your Battleships free to bombard, and your melee ships free to take advantage of their coastal cities.