Is Weapon Upgrade from Ancient Ruins a bit overpowered and unrealistic?

[Pep]

IMO, Weapons Upgrade from Ancient Ruins is unrealistic and a bit unbalanced. I think it should be changed, so:

• It maintains the current behaviour only if you have the required technology. For example, a warrior would be upgraded to spearman only if you have researched Bronze Working.
• The unit receives extra XP if you don't have the required technology. A warrior would receive extra XP instead of being upgraded to spearman if you haven't researched Bronze Working.

One of my most easiest games was the one in which I was playing with the mongols. I remember being in the middle age with 2 cavalries, due to keshik being promoted through ancient ruins weapon upgrade. As you can imagine, enemy cities were falling very quickly, thanks to cavalry/keshik/khan extra mobility and cavalry strength (instead of horseman).

 

[Tabarnak]

Ruins can potentially be even more powerful if you have to wait for bronze working or archery. I mostly prefer getting culture, gold or pop ruins than upgrades(archerscout are kind of nice tho). At least they fixed the really overpowered multiple upgrade combo months ago!

Extra XP is a good idea.

 

[TPQ]

If your warrior gets upgraded to a spearman, it's only 1 more strength and the damn thing won't really be useful again until it can be upgraded to a rifleman.

If your warrior gets extra XP, he'll be the first guy you upgrade to a sword, then longsword. It'd be much more powerful the way you suggest, rather than how it is now imo.

If ancient ruins only upgrade your unit to the next best unit of the era you're in, I think that's good enough. It used to be that, in some circumstances, you could get your warrior up to a rifle in the ancient era. That was overpowered. I think that kind of thing was patched out of the game a while ago?

If you reach the limit for an upgrade of your era, the ancient ruins should pick other goodies for you, like cash, or culture. I thought that was how it was now?

 

[joyous_gard]

I don't know. I usually hope for scout upgrade to archer (preferably after the +1 sight, +1 movement). I have that with an American scout right now and it's pretty sweet.

I like Keshiks the way they are. I probably would be bummed to get a cavalry upgrade but maybe not if I teched straight to chiv and got the upgrade shortly thereafter. I don't know. Upgrade from Knight to Cavalry seems weirder than scout to archer or warrior to spearman.

 

[AznWarlord]

I don't know. I usually hope for scout upgrade to archer (preferably after the +1 sight, +1 movement). I have that with an American scout right now and it's pretty sweet.

I like Keshiks the way they are. I probably would be bummed to get a cavalry upgrade but maybe not if I teched straight to chiv and got the upgrade shortly thereafter. I don't know. Upgrade from Knight to Cavalry seems weirder than scout to archer or warrior to spearman.

From out of nowhere a gun. And then it takes hundreds of years to finally replicate it.

 

[_hero_]

Unrealistic, yes, but hardly overpowered. Unless you are Greece or Persia, getting a spearmen is a negligible upgrade. In fact it hurts you if you were going for a swordsmen/longsword as you just had to replace that sword/longsword with a spear/pike. Maybe if it came in the early industrial after you'd just bulbed infantry, and got a mech, it would be overpowered, but it's rare to find a ruin that late in the game.

IMO getting a tech, 30 culture, and pop are all more game changing then getting a unit upgrade in the early stages of the game. Gold can be too if you turn it into a RA or something.

 

[Furycrab]

To be honest... it really just depends on what difficulty you are playing, there is a point where "maybe" 1 or 2 early upgraded units just won't matter as much as you'd like or that you just won't find that many ruins because the AI will be better at scouting them out than you will.

I think the balance in good huts in this game is "fairly" good where it rewards the players who scout and it's not quite as powerful or dumb as it could be in previous civ games.

Skilldorado though...

 

[KevinMiles90000]

I liked them better when you could get a crossbowmen if you got 2 upgrades. If you were China you could utterly decimate anything for a pretty long time.

 

[Rex_Mundi]

Getting a chariot or pikeman upgraded is great.
When I find a ruin on an island I usually try with one of those units.

 

[MARDUK80]

IMO, Weapons Upgrade from Ancient Ruins is unrealistic and a bit unbalanced. I think it should be changed, so:

• It maintains the current behaviour only if you have the required technology. For example, a warrior would be upgraded to spearman only if you have researched Bronze Working.
• The unit receives extra XP if you don't have the required technology. A warrior would receive extra XP instead of being upgraded to spearman if you haven't researched Bronze Working.

Yeah, I completely agree. Good suggestion and hopefully they will change this.

 

[kamex]

Well at least they patched so its only one upgrade per unit. So you no longer have Rifles wondering around on turn 20...

 

[ColinTH]

I just disable ruins, even when I play as Polynesia, the luck from what you might obtain from ruins can be game changing for both us and the AI civs. A couple of months back, I had a discussion on this forum about a German Rifleman which appeared in 1,400 BC. OK so it was probably a Longswordsman that found a ruins. From that day on I play mostly without ruins!

I am a big fan of Pep's thinking, I might start using ruins again if his ideas were implemented.

 

[Man vs Civ AI]

I agree. Ruins are unrealistic so I turn them off.

 

[RD-BH]

Answer: No.

Pillaging precursors to personal advantage is an age old tradition.
The benefit gained in Civ5 will not win the game for you.
The AI has the same "advantage", so it is not an advantage.
The barbarians already have a starting advantage in both numbers and strength.

 

[_hero_]

On the higher difficulties, the AI starts with an extra Settler, and multiple units to explore with. Chances are the AI gets more ruins then you on higher level games. Turning them off could work in your favor.

 

[RD-BH]

Note:
On deity sometimes they explore, sometimes they don't.
Sometimes they expand, sometimes they don't.
The AI is schizophrenic.

I have noticed when exploring,
... if I discover a ruin
... and immediately target it with a unit
... (even one with no movement points)
... the AI will not take that ruin unless already hostile.
... Attempting to move to same target tile is considered unfriendly by AI.

 

[Randall Turner]

On the higher difficulties, the AI starts with an extra Settler, and multiple units to explore with. Chances are the AI gets more ruins then you on higher level games. Turning them off could work in your favor.

This. Aside from the fact that what the OP describes no longer happens (ie, it's been "fixed"), you get so few goody-huts against an AI at immortal or deity that they can't be overpowered for the player.

Edit: some map types (ie, archipelago) where the AI can't get to all the ruins, you have a chance to pick up more than a few. Even then though, best-case now is you'll get a few scout-archers, not game breaking at all.

 

[UWHabs]

Most games I get maybe 1 ruin upgrade. As mentioned, it's a lot less game-breaking than getting, say, 30 culture on turn 2.

 

[ColinTH]

This. Aside from the fact that what the OP describes no longer happens (ie, it's been "fixed"), you get so few goody-huts against an AI at immortal or deity that they can't be overpowered for the player.

Edit: some map types (ie, archipelago) where the AI can't get to all the ruins, you have a chance to pick up more than a few. Even then though, best-case now is you'll get a few scout-archers, not game breaking at all.

You can still get more than your fair share on Archipelago, the AI civs bombard the barbarians who are standing guard over ruins with their triremes, but they don't work in unison with embarked units! I would say that playing as England, Polynesia, Denmark, Turkey or Askia Songhi, you have a major advantage.

I agree on Continents/pangea maps, you will generally be at a disadvantage. If you are lucky enough to get the right start position with a pinch point and you don't allow open borders, you could possibly have four or five ruins to take at your leisure, and I am sure we all know what to do in that situation! We can't help ourselves, it's human nature! So we could end up with four Keshiks, it's probably game over. So yes, it could be game changing!

I also hate the fact that having just researched your opening tech, you take a ruins and lo and behold you are lucky enough to pick up the follow on tech!

Anyway that's my two-peneth, sorry if I have upset anyone.

EDIT - I see you beat me to it RT - lol

 

[Randall Turner]

you could possibly have four or five ruins to take at your leisure, and I am sure we all know what to do in that situation! We can't help ourselves, it's human nature! So we could end up with four Keshiks, it's probably game over. So yes, it could be game changing!

You're referring to picking the "reseed random number generator" advanced option and reloading until you get what you want, right?

I agree it's human nature. (And yeah, I've done it.) However, you can only get about one upgrade per every three ruins even with reloading. There's some sort of "cycling" count kept.