Jaguars bad? think again.Aztec strategy

[Swiss Bezerker]

I posted this on the civilization underground forums, and i am going to post it here. It enfuryates me that so many people say the aztecs are bad without even playing their best values. If you have tried this, and you still think Aztecs are bad, fine. Just make sure you know what their strong point is

here it is:

Me from civilization undergorund
The aztecs dont look like an impresive civ at first. Sure, aggresive is nice and spiritual can get you an early religon, but they arent incredible. As for the jaguar, they get less power than normal swordsman! Sure they dont need iron and they get +25 defense in jungles, but iron is uncommon to not have, and the jungle ability is seldom useful. And plus, roman praetorians have 8 power which is three more. Just waitill you see how good they are

step 1>to test out the aztecs, do a duel pangea map, no other changes.

step 2>found city, explore with scout, build warrior in city than worker at size 2.go straight for iron working.

step3>after your first settler, build/chop a barracks than jaguar rush them at your opponent. Dont think u need to make a giant stockpile. 2 is good enough. Use the cover and city raider promotions and pillage their copper if they have any.( if they do, make sure to pillage it as soon as the war starts to make sure no axemen get out)

step4>congrats, u should have won by now. if you did as fast as I can, you should have the leader skills of augustus ceaser.

try it with more opponents. what makes it better than ceasers war machine? you are agressive so u start right off with the ability to get the cover promotion. Plus there is no need to hook up iron

 

[obsolete]

A lot of people make the mistake of building a bunch of jags and then finding out the hardway how underpowerwered they really are.

They are actualy, supposed to be used when you really are screwed on resources. However they increased their strength in newer patches and I haven't tested the new ones out yet.

 

[DaveMcW]

Tell me the difficulty level and date you won on that duel map, and I will beat it with any non-Aztec civ.

The Aztecs are very flexible in unpredictable situations, but they are not a civ that will dominate with any specific strategy.

 

[wc3promet]

I posted this on the civilization underground forums, and i am going to post it here. It enfuryates me that so many people say the aztecs are bad without even playing their best values. If you have tried this, and you still think Aztecs are bad, fine. Just make sure you know what their strong point is

here it is:

Try playing Multiplayer Ladder Games on Gamespy and then report back to us on your winning percentage and RANK.

Action speaks louder than Theorycraft.

EDIT:

Let me see, you're playing a Duel-size Pangea map with 1 Computer AI player right?

Here's how I counter you:

1) Your base is definitely less than 6 to 12 turns from mine.

2) I will declare war on you as soon as I reach your Border.

3) You only start with a Scout, because you're Aztec.

4) I will use my Warrior to attack your City. Even if you managed to get +20% Cultural Bonus and +25% from Fortification with your pathetic scout, making it a grand total of 1.45 Str. My 2 Str Warrior will still raze your City.

5) Better yet, once your scout is out of your city, it's like a walk over.

6) Game over.

 

[zafyro]

well, do not try to come near this copper mine if it´s guarded by a single axeman because your 2 jaguar will be devoured by it... I guess Jaguars are usefull if built before enemy has any cooper unit [because they have a hard time against spears even] but then the jaguar is a "iron" unit, and iron working is an expensive tech.
All players go, no matter their game stile to coper working because of choping forest and the dire importance of copper so you will most probably find a axe rush or at least one or two axes to fend of pesky barbarians...

 

[Swiss Bezerker]

The whole point is people wont even have copper yet! they will barely have workers at that time. The whole point is it will barely u dont need anything else other than iron working. no need to hook up iron, so your enemy wont even be close to ready. BTW, thanks for the constructive criticism

 

[Wodan]

The whole point is people wont even have copper yet! they will barely have workers at that time. The whole point is it will barely u dont need anything else other than iron working. no need to hook up iron, so your enemy wont even be close to ready. BTW, thanks for the constructive criticism

No problem.

I guess I don't see how you will have Iron Working while the enemy doesn't "even have copper yet" and "barely has workers".

Wodan

 

[Wodan]

Actually, your Step 2 requires researching 5 or 6 techs. Wheel, Archery, Animal Husbandry or Agriculture, Masonry, Bronze, Iron. Right? Depending on game speed, that's going to take a long while. Any opponent worth their salt is going to have their own thing ready.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm convinced a "Zerg rush" is a viable strategy. Actually, it'll probably work most of the time.

Wodan

 

[A+ombomb]

You are right that jags are powerful, but not when you get all those crappy techs inbetween. Try a straight b-line to jags, and use a worker to chop out a barracks and/or some quick jags, and rush. That is much faster - speed is everything if you want a jaguar rush to succeed.

 

[Swiss Bezerker]

OH MY GOD WHAT WAS I THINKING WHEN I WROTE THIS! I just played another jag rush (managed 870BC, enemy had city on hill, I am sorry for recommending dem techs. I will edit the quote

 

[Crimso]

I stopped reading at "duel pangea map."

 

[Dracleath]

This is trival to do with any civ that starts with mining, just substitute axemen for jag warriors and start your second city on copper (if you have no copper wait until you have iron working, the drop it on iron. If you start with mining it shouldn't be more than a 5 turn or so wait on normal).

 

[Shillen]

Jaguars would be good if they made them available at bronzeworking and put the shield cost back up to a regular swordsman.

 

[Ozyman8]

This is an good rush-strategy, but I have a better one:

1. Play the Incans on a dual pangea map.
2. Found city, explore, build lots of quechuas.
3. Attack!!!!
4. 3000 BC - You should have won by now, ranked "Augustus Caesar".

Why better? Like jaguars, quechuas beat archers and warriors but lose to axemen. Unlike jaguars, quechuas are available sooner (faster win, higher score, less chance of axemen).

They also survive the w3promet counter-rush. Of course, it's not much fun to win like this.

 

[Ozyman8]

I enjoy playing the Aztecs in single-player, but for large wars rather than fast victories. I like that they're aggressive and less dependent on iron and horses than most civilizations.

 

[Doctor Love]

Rush strategies on small maps against AI isn't really all that fascinating imho.

If your enemy is Caesar and he gets lucky with early Iron, you are utterly ruined. Then again, last I played Caesar on a small pangea map (prior to most recent patch) he was pretty unbeatable in terms of playing the AI.

True test of a rush strategy is if it can get you enough extra cities and advantage in a game with more standard settings to pay off in the long run.

 

[warpstorm]

Sure you can. Against the AI, you will likely take out your nearest neighbor. I tried a Jag Rush game last week on a normal map and took out two neighbors before I had to quit growing (the upkeep was too much to grow any more). About that time the AI was building Longbows and there is no way Jags can touch that.

 

[Swiss Bezerker]

of course he wont be that advanced in techs and he will be in ruin before he can see that iron.

 

[Oggums]

What's your special secret to learning Iron Working before anyone else can learn Bronze Working?

 

[Doctor Love]

Well he doesn't need iron to make a Jaguar, but with only 5 attack it's not enough to rush - by the time he gets a couple of them to an enemy city on Monarch or above, AI will already have a stack of Archers. A stack of fortified archers in a city is tough enough to kill with promoted swordsmen, much less jaguars.