Talcove
Slayer of Spies
That's just blasphemy. If he wasn't alive back then, how could he have fought off the Hunnic-Brazilian alliance? ANSWER: He couldn't have, and today we'd all be Ramming it at Carnival.
Japan post-patch = Awesome
- Thread starter Crossed_Sabers
- Start date
That's just blasphemy. If he wasn't alive back then, how could he have fought off the Hunnic-Brazilian alliance? ANSWER: He couldn't have, and today we'd all be Ramming it at Carnival.
I've always thought that any significant bonus to unit strength would be almost-if-not-quite-outright OP and in my experience with Japan before it was perfectly fine. Quite spectacular for leveled-up units too.
And now it's much better than before? I don't know what more would anyone want...
If I were to pick out a civ that's way UP (before the patch) it would be the Celts - not Japan.
And now it's much better than before? I don't know what more would anyone want...
If I were to pick out a civ that's way UP (before the patch) it would be the Celts - not Japan.
Lord Yanaek
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
- Messages
- 1,501
Except that Japan never got a "significant bonus to unit strength", what Bushido does is make Japaneese wounded units don't loose power. A 1 HP unit will deal as much damage as a 100 HP, but it will still die as any 1 hp unit (unless he was attacking a city)
Ninakoru
A deity on Emperor
I'm on a game with Japan, reaching industrial, wanted to remember the good old times on vanilla with Japan.
The culture bonus is nice, you can get it pretty early, is when it matters the most. Later can add a bit extra tourist, something is not bad.
The bonus is modest but, they still retain bushido, and synergyzes quite well in an aggressive approach.
The Samurai boat build is quite original. On the first place I built most of my cities with sea access but by the time I got samurais I only used the ability three times, and because I'm going wide.
I guess the best chance to get the most of it is when a barb ship or an enemy fleet kills your fishing boats, to quickly rebuild them. I don't know if it works for offshore platforms, I'll test it when time comes.
All in all I think this get Japan in an upper tier, but far from the best civs, like Poland, Korea, Arabia and Babylon. Good enough I must say.
The culture bonus is nice, you can get it pretty early, is when it matters the most. Later can add a bit extra tourist, something is not bad.
The bonus is modest but, they still retain bushido, and synergyzes quite well in an aggressive approach.
The Samurai boat build is quite original. On the first place I built most of my cities with sea access but by the time I got samurais I only used the ability three times, and because I'm going wide.
I guess the best chance to get the most of it is when a barb ship or an enemy fleet kills your fishing boats, to quickly rebuild them. I don't know if it works for offshore platforms, I'll test it when time comes.
All in all I think this get Japan in an upper tier, but far from the best civs, like Poland, Korea, Arabia and Babylon. Good enough I must say.
Polisurgist
King
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2011
- Messages
- 630
It doesn't. Samurai can build fishing boats.
Ninakoru
A deity on Emperor
Onkly consumes movement and is insta-built.
BUDISMYBUDDY
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2013
- Messages
- 77
or if you have a city with coastal reasorces but aren't actually on the coast
Gort
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,518
The problem with the boat thing is that by the time I'm getting Samurai, I've probably already built my fishing boats, and by the time they're seriously getting raided (so being able to insta-rebuild them would be good) I've probably upgraded my Samurai units to something stronger.
Unless the idea is to keep a Samurai permanently around to rebuild fishing boats, which hardly seems worthwhile.
Unless the idea is to keep a Samurai permanently around to rebuild fishing boats, which hardly seems worthwhile.
Polisurgist
King
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2011
- Messages
- 630
This was basically the case when I tried Japan during the beta, but what I found was that Samurai gave me a great reason to boom from 3 cities to 7-8 in the Medieval and Renaissance. I could float a Samurai and a Settler out to a good island or coastal spot and dedicate an internal production trade route and end up with a thriving city close to 10 pop really quick.
In retrospect, since my expansion period there actually lasted into the Industrial, I kind of wish I had kept an un-upgraded Samurai around for exactly that purpose.
bcaiko
Emperor
I ran into the former problem myself, but I found the fishing boats thing helpful for another reason. When I've taken an opposing coastal city I want to keep with Samurai, usually the AI hasn't improved the city fully (there's another Pearl resource RIGHT THERE, Bismark!!) or the boats were destroyed by me or by the AI fleeing/trying to take the city back.
The Samurai can help quickly repair your newly acquired city's infrastructure, give that city culture so it will actually expand its borders, and there's no need to build a work boat in another city or unpuppet the new city for that reason. It's a small value, but I found it of value more often than I would have thought.
El Caballerion
King
There is one stupid mix up with Japan though. I built a Samurai and explored an ancient ruin; instead of upgrading my Samurai into a rifleman, it upgraded them to a dumb musketman. SIgh...
Crossed_Sabers
Chieftain
Another thing I would like to add - since Samurai don't go obsolete until Rifling, you can build Brandenburg Gate + Military Academy = Triple Shock Samurai with March promotion right out the gate...
kingofsealand
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2013
- Messages
- 279
IDK why people are saying the +1 culture sucks its actually pretty good. I will say that Im not sure it would add up to as much culture over the game as polands 5 (6?) free social policies do but then again theyd just have to give that bonus to every civ to make them comparable.
I found it super useful. In my first game as post patch japan i played archipelago, my start wasnt amazing with only 1 measly sea resource on an isolated island but a good spot for a second city was to the north with three fish. My capital ended up going on a river next to a mountain with access to a couple land based luxuries.
I risked taking god of the sea despite the dearth of sea resources and boy did it pay off! The third city i founded was on an island to my west which had 6 sea resources availabe to it. I improved them asap, and at the time +6 culture was a pretty big deal considering my total culture output was like 50 or lower.
The samurai's new fishing boat ability fits my play style perfectly although it would be even more useful if samurai replaced swordsmen instead of longswords. It was awesome to be able to send 3 + settlers towards a chain of islands i wanted and then send in a single samurai after them to make all the boats. Its kind of mind-boggling thinking about how much cash I saved on work boats in the game, I built maybe 10 before i got samurai and built at least 20 using just two samurai. I normally buy workboats unless its late enough that theyre a 1 turn production so in my mind thats 320 X 20 = 6400 gold I didnt waste on work boats!!!
Its just now 1930 in the game and I prolly have 30-40 sea resources being worked empire wide, +1 culture from each boat per turn is nothing to sneeze at. Id have to play another game as the polynesians but unless you get very lucky with the layout of an island id say japans bonus makes just as much culture as moai might assuming sea resources are plentiful.
Yes the no-oil zero is a semi lazy change but its still kind of cool and in some cases very useful. If you have 10 oil do you want a couple aircraft carriers to go with your battleships or not?
Overall i love the new japan and the mixture of cultural/militaristic boons they receive. I saved an insane amount of money on work boats with them.
I found it super useful. In my first game as post patch japan i played archipelago, my start wasnt amazing with only 1 measly sea resource on an isolated island but a good spot for a second city was to the north with three fish. My capital ended up going on a river next to a mountain with access to a couple land based luxuries.
I risked taking god of the sea despite the dearth of sea resources and boy did it pay off! The third city i founded was on an island to my west which had 6 sea resources availabe to it. I improved them asap, and at the time +6 culture was a pretty big deal considering my total culture output was like 50 or lower.
The samurai's new fishing boat ability fits my play style perfectly although it would be even more useful if samurai replaced swordsmen instead of longswords. It was awesome to be able to send 3 + settlers towards a chain of islands i wanted and then send in a single samurai after them to make all the boats. Its kind of mind-boggling thinking about how much cash I saved on work boats in the game, I built maybe 10 before i got samurai and built at least 20 using just two samurai. I normally buy workboats unless its late enough that theyre a 1 turn production so in my mind thats 320 X 20 = 6400 gold I didnt waste on work boats!!!
Its just now 1930 in the game and I prolly have 30-40 sea resources being worked empire wide, +1 culture from each boat per turn is nothing to sneeze at. Id have to play another game as the polynesians but unless you get very lucky with the layout of an island id say japans bonus makes just as much culture as moai might assuming sea resources are plentiful.
Yes the no-oil zero is a semi lazy change but its still kind of cool and in some cases very useful. If you have 10 oil do you want a couple aircraft carriers to go with your battleships or not?
Overall i love the new japan and the mixture of cultural/militaristic boons they receive. I saved an insane amount of money on work boats with them.
Or not needing any iron for an Ironclad.... I mean compared to a frigate it should need 2-3 iron if that frigate needs 1!
But yeah, I'm not upset about the realism issue either... there's at least 1 Civ that gets a Mounted unit for no horses and I just rationalize this as the soldiers provide their own. The fact that Iron isn't required for later game units I attribute to efficient use of it in steel production. A Zero with no Oil cost I just think of as using some other means to provide fuel/lubricant (maybe Sake for fuel and fish oil for lubricant... hrm).
They're fighters actually, although I found them still pretty useful as I could destroy enemy fighters much faster than they can take down the Zero.
El Caballerion
King
As Japan, with only 9 cities (with only one religious building; the Mosque), I am pulling in +145 culture a turn; mostly from a hoard of whales and atolls around my peninsula. A Civ that's good at both war AND culture? Japan= The New France
El Caballerion
King
Oh, for those of you who have SPOTIFY and are playing as Japan (but bored of the default CIV V music), search for SHOGUN: TOTAL WAR 2 soundtrack. The incredible score makes playing Japan soooo much more invigorating.
