Jon Shafer joins Stardock to work on elemental

[Androrc the Orc]

Good for him. As long as he doesn't go mess up Paradox Games, I wish the fellow well. I'm not in his console-type demographic, though I understand some are. Bit sad that I've had to write off Civ5, but I'm thankful that people here pointed me in the right direction. The prob, now, is how to stop playing EU III - it has that one-more-turn factor, y'know?

I felt the same when I heard about him being hired by Stardock. No one messes wit' ma Paradox

 

[Superluminal]

I have become Shafer, the destroyer of games!

Haha I kid I kid, I wish him good luck in his future endeavors.

 

[Adam7Eight]

I quite like Stardock as a company and Elemental as a game.

I hope Jon Shafer does well there. Apparently he'll be working on the modding
capabilities for Elemental and if anything, he is an excellent modder. I think he'll excel at that.

Elemental has also hired an excellent Fantasy/Sci Fi writer. At present I think Elemental's story is a bit dry. It should get spiced up a fair bit now.

Along with Kael being hired, Stardock is making all the right moves.

Elemental is already fun to play with the 1.1 patch. It looks like it will continue to get better and better.

Certainly I think Jon Shafer should get his share of the blame for the debacle that is Failure 5. However, Firaxis and 2K Games deserve the lion's share of it.

I think this will work out great for Stardock.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Venereus]

Stardock's games are awfully complex, and probably need to be streamlined some so as to not confuse new players. I can't talk about too many details on what our detailed plans are yet, but a little tease can’t hurt.

This post by Jon made me LOL. First of all, Civ 5 was streamlined into a barebones game, and secondly, "a little tease" like Civ 5's marketing campaign, with their flagship move "hide the demo", did hurt, a lot of people, like me and my wallet.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I have become Shafer, the destroyer of games!

Haha I kid I kid, I wish him good luck in his future endeavors.

I hear he causes global warming and killed off the dinosaurs.

I couldn't find my keys this morning. I'm pretty sure Shafer hid them in the coat I was wearing last night.

 

[charon2112]

Quote by Jon on the Elemental forums:

Greetings all! Proud to be joining the Stardock team, and expect to work on a lot of great projects here in the future.

There's been some assumptions here about what my joining Stardock will mean for the games the studio will be putting out from now on. Fear not all - they'll be clearly recognizable as Stardock games. One thing that I will say though, is that Stardock's games are awfully complex, and probably need to be streamlined some so as to not confuse new players. I can't talk about too many details on what our detailed plans are yet, but a little tease can’t hurt.

Right now I'm thinking we'll trim the interface down to one big button in the middle of the screen, 1024 pixels wide by 768 pixels tall (approximately - will vary based on the resolution of the user’s monitor). The text on this button will say "Win the Game." I've had some discussions with Brad and the marketing team about this, and everyone is really excited by the possibilities. We've seen it work well in products from other publishers, and I really feel that this new direction will result in Stardock's games appealing to a much larger audience. We'll do some focus testing and see how things go. If people are still having some trouble grasping the gameplay concepts we may have to simplify things a bit more. I'll keep you guys posted!

Jon

Look at the bolded part, he's joking about completely dumbing down Elemental. I don't really think that's funny, and it's pretty unprofessional, considering some people's opinions of what he did to Civ V.

 

[Dale]

I don't envy Jon going to work on Elemental. If only he could make it the spiritual successor to Master of Magic that it was originally intended to be, I would be pleased as punch.

And for those who think Jon was a nobody before Civ5, here's an FYI. According to MobyGames, Jon Shafer is credited with:

• Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Colonization (2008), 2K Games
• Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword (2007), 2K Games
• Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Warlords (2006), 2K Games
• Sid Meier's Civilization IV (2005), 2K Games
• Sid Meier's Civilization III: Conquests (2003), Atari, Inc.

Good luck, Jon.

Credited doesn't mean he did anything substantial for all those games though.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

Credited doesn't mean he did anything substantial for all those games though.

Yes. What did he do in them, Greybriar?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yes. What did he do in them, Greybriar?

I'm sure he's responsible for all of the things people hate and none of the things people like.

 

[eoc]

I think it maybe a bad news for me, for bought Elemental last year.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Look at the bolded part, he's joking about completely dumbing down Elemental. I don't really think that's funny, and it's pretty unprofessional, considering some people's opinions of what he did to Civ V.

The gaming industry is serious business, I play my games with my elitist face on and I must be satisfied by products of vintage gaming quality. Serious business I say! None of this jesting is acceptable indeed! *monocle pops out*.

 

[JesusOnEez]

Did nobody but me read the below post from Jon as a great big middle finger to Civ V and Firaxis or did I miss some posts? Reading between the lines, Firaxis tied Jon's hands behind his back and he's being sarcastic about doing the same to Elemental as he had to do to Civilization.

"...I'm thinking we'll trim the interface down to one big button in the middle of the screen, 1024 pixels wide by 768 pixels tall (approximately - will vary based on the resolution of the user’s monitor). The text on this button will say "Win the Game." I've had some discussions with Brad and the marketing team about this, and everyone is really excited by the possibilities. We've seen it work well in products from other publishers, and I really feel that this new direction will result in Stardock's games appealing to a much larger audience. We'll do some focus testing and see how things go. If people are still having some trouble grasping the gameplay concepts we may have to simplify things a bit more. I'll keep you guys posted!"

Maybe it's just me...

 

[ImperialGuard]

In business, when looking for talent, one factor sometimes used, is to look to see if the individual has ever failed in the past

Talented people that are involved in failures learn from the mistakes and become better resources.

Perhaps we can give Jon the benefit of the doubt and assume he's thought long and hard about what went wrong with CiV and is determined to never repeat those mistakes?

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

Look at the bolded part, he's joking about completely dumbing down Elemental. I don't really think that's funny, and it's pretty unprofessional, considering some people's opinions of what he did to Civ V.

C'mon he is just using a bit of irony. It's his way with dealing with the fact that he is faulted for EVERYTHING including things that were the publishers decision, and that he is often said to have oversimplified ciV. Think about it though, what ideas did ciV have that did not have potential if done correctly?

 

[JLoZeppeli]

No the problem he is making fun of the accusations received about Civ V, thinking that they are crap and joking of the fact that he come up to push up Elemental with is ideas...

I have to tell that when too young people come to a leading position at work, sometimes they became unaware of their true experience and feed their ego a little too much....

I have seen at work a lot of them crumbling down pushing ideas that were untested or risky (and in archeology missing data is something very terrible), and then crying out that wasnìt their fault, that the project leader (who's ass they licked a lot to obtain the position) was at fault to push them into this responsability and that others don't help them a lot (when it's the opposite).. And in the end, the seniors must clean the mess, leaving thero own work to not lose the datas or anything that the junior screw up because he was to full of himself obtained a position as equal with someone 10 years older (and i speak about experience in the field, not simpy age difference)...

 

[SuperJay]

http://forums.elementalgame.com/403503/page/1/#2860255

Okay, I gotta give Shafer some credit... that post was hilarious. A giant "Win the Game button?" A sly reference to his own work streamlining Civ 5, perhaps? I kind of hope his reference to "games by other publishers" is exactly that. Hard to say, but I laughed.

 

[Evilsooty]

Whether it was a dig at Firaxis and/or some of the criticisms of CiV it was still pretty funny

 

[jacyp]

Well well. Several points from me, a guy who thinks Jon Shafer is the responsible (who else would be? The rest of the team who did what he told them to do and what he approved? Do you really think anything came out in this game without the lead designer's consent?) for a ruined Civilization 5:

1) Civ 5 is a masterpiece compared to Elemental. I'm pretty sure Jon can help there. I'm pretty sure ANYONE can help there.


2)

Can someone explain what exactly his duties will be?

Here's a quote from Stardock's forums:

We don't make decisions based on Internet politics. Good games sell. Jon is a key ingredient in our ongoing strategy. Without Jon, there's no realistic way we can take our game engine and make it extensible via Python and such. I would challenge any Internet person to name someone more qualified to make a game extensible than Jon Shafer. Anyone.

So I think that doubt is solved. I don't think this job description sugests that he will have the power to make the game much different than it is (unfortunately?). By the way, for those who have a weak memory, the job of shaping the game to his will belong to Kael.

And...


3) ... indeed taking this job is a step down. But also a good and necessary one. Maybe he agree with some people here that the lead designer job was too much for him and wants to get more corporative experience. In the thread reggarding his departure of Fireaxis, several people that didn't like Civ 5 and hold Jon responsible for it, also said that the main problem was the fact that a lead designer job was out of his league, that he's too young and lack xp for that. Now he's in a job where he's not a lead designer and he's not working in a long standing series with several well stablished paradigms.


What amazes me is that, so far, it seems that he's doing everything we, who don't like Civilization 5, would want him to do:

- Move away from Civilization 5, clearing "constraint" out of the path for changing: as long as he was in Fireaxis, it would be embarassing for anyone there to sugest radical changes in things that were Jon's signature.

- Get more experience in the corporative game development process in general. One thing is to contribute, another entirely different is to be the lead designer.


So the guy is out of the way of changing and is getting the xp we wanted him to get. What's the reason for all the bashing? One thing is to bash I guy for what he did, and I joined the bashing then. And I still say: I think Civilization 5 is a crappy game that was ruined by Jon Shafer.

But another thing is to continue to bash a guy who is doing nothing wrong so far. People are bashing Jon for what he will do in the future, without even knowing what will he be responsable for.

A quote from him at Elemental's forums:

To get serious for a bit though - my goal is not to come to Stardock and change everything. Every company and every project has different goals, priorities and challenges to overcome. With Civ 5 we had a particular target, but that doesn't mean every Stardock game I'm involved with is going to be like Civ 5 in some way. Stardock aims for a different audience compared with other studios, and Brad has a clear idea on what kinds of projects he wants to make. I'll be lending my experience to that cause, and in the end, hopefully we end up with better games.

I think it's clear that he's glad to work in a smaller company with the reduced pressure that comes along with it and under the guidance of people who are in the business longer than he is, because that's the translation of the bolded parts. Maybe he will thrive under this new enviroment with the pressure off of his back and trying to improve a game that was almost a total failure at launch, who knows?

I love to bash people responsable for a bad failure, but I bash only for the failure. My wish is that he perceives his errors and improve himself, why wish for anything else? Judging by the joke he did that people already posted, the way he implies that he will dumb down Elemental indicates that he's at least fully aware of the complaints Civilization 5 received in the community. If he will get illuded by the sales numbers of the game instead of learning the lesson, only time will tell.

So let's wait for that time to come and then bash him again if he does anything wrong.

 

[Fistalis]

Did nobody but me read the below post from Jon as a great big middle finger to Civ V and Firaxis or did I miss some posts? Reading between the lines, Firaxis tied Jon's hands behind his back and he's being sarcastic about doing the same to Elemental as he had to do to Civilization.

"...I'm thinking we'll trim the interface down to one big button in the middle of the screen, 1024 pixels wide by 768 pixels tall (approximately - will vary based on the resolution of the user’s monitor). The text on this button will say "Win the Game." I've had some discussions with Brad and the marketing team about this, and everyone is really excited by the possibilities. We've seen it work well in products from other publishers, and I really feel that this new direction will result in Stardock's games appealing to a much larger audience. We'll do some focus testing and see how things go. If people are still having some trouble grasping the gameplay concepts we may have to simplify things a bit more. I'll keep you guys posted!"

Maybe it's just me...

Thats how i read it.. and i was one of the loudest detractors on stardock about his hire.

 

[SuperJay]

I agree about not bashing Jon for things he hasn't even done, but I wouldn't keep bashing him because you dislike Civ 5. I don't like Civ 5 that much either - it's too boring for me to enjoy it, and lost that "one more turn" feeling for me - but I also work at a software company.

We have HUNDREDS of people in our Development department alone. Is our Lead Analyst for our base product responsible for every problem in the rest of the integrated programs and utilities? Heck no, she's awesome (we have coffee together every few weeks, and I work with her directly in my role) and she'd be mortified to learn that all of our users villified her personally for every problem they have. Software development in general is a large endeavor; game development is obviously different from what we do here, and in many ways probably more complicated.

Holding Jon responsible for design decisions like 1UPT is reasonable - raging at him because of every perceived flaw in Civ 5 is not.