Jon Shafer joins Stardock to work on elemental

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Good lord. Nobody on this forum knows what caused Civ V to be what it is unless there are some Firaxis people here. Having worked in computer game development, it is a VASTLY more complicated process than you're giving it credit for and it's highly unlikely that what we're seeing is a solid execution on Shafer's vision. That project involved at least a hundred people and probably more over a span of years. If Civ V had gone exactly according to his plan, I'll bet he would have stayed on.

The most plausible scenario to me is that Civ V was rushed out the door and Shafer went to a company that could guarantee him that his projects would have enough time in development to really shine. I don't KNOW what happened, of course, but knowing that I don't know the situation, I'd rather not assume that every project he touches will be awful, particularly given that one of his lead design credits (co-lead designer on Civ IV BTS) was decidedly not awful.

And to head off one common critique - I have personally taken game concepts from a stage where a reasonable observer might have considered them so fundamentally flawed that they need to be scrapped to a stage where they're widely well-received in a span of a few months (I once had one of my game concepts that *I* concluded was unworkable turned around into something almost universally well-received by a clever colleague with some decent iteration time set aside for it). Game development is a highly iterative process, and a few months makes a huge difference.

Note that I'm not saying Shafer's vision for Civ V was correct or good, by the way, or that Shafer wasn't responsible for the flaws in the product. I'm saying that we don't know, because if indications that it was rushed out the door early are accurate, we never saw Shafer's real vision for the game (if a lead designer at Firaxis is even responsible for that - at many studios that falls on production rather than design).
 
You know, I somehow doubt Jon is the type of person to ignore everyone to intentionally make decisions to screw people over. I'm sure he truly believed they had the time and resources so everything he wanted to do would work out. They didn't and that is not Jon's fault. It did work out fine for thousands of players, just not many of us. Jon has seen the criticisms, is a really nice guy, and will only become a better game maker from it.

Brad Wardell is the same way and the future of Stardock is brighter than ever for them as they have great successes and a piece of charcoal that's being rshaped into a gem. Stardock is not afraid to see and learn from mistkaes. You know how many companies do the same crap over and over again? Never admit when they're wrong? Don't care about their customer care? Look at Comcast.

Personally I don't like some aspects of Civ V and disagreed with some of the design decisions, but if you're angry direct it towards 2Kgames or Firaxis as a whole and not an individual unless they actually deserve it. He's not a Bobby Kotick or Yves Guillemot. I got way up in arms about the game, especially how it was marketed, but Jon does not deserve the criticism for that.
 
Perhaps there aren't that many companies developing this sort of game. Perhaps there aren't many designers with his sort of experience.
 
Remind me not to buy Stardock games. Sound like a step down job to me.
I see that Stardock is a 3 man company that is suffering from very disapointed customers who find the game uninteresting and poorly executed. Read the forums. Now they are getting a hard time for hiring Schafer. No-one steps from a big organisation to a crappy small one by choice.
 
Remind me not to buy Stardock games. Sound like a step down job to me.
I see that Stardock is a 3 man company that is suffering from very disapointed customers who find the game uninteresting and poorly executed. Read the forums. Now they are getting a hard time for hiring Schafer. No-one steps from a big organisation to a crappy small one by choice.

:lol: at Stardock being a crappy, small organisation.
 
And here I thought Jon deserved pity for being fired. Apparently what he meant by "I will be around to work on Civ as long as I can" was that he already had a job offer lined up and had been planning to leave Firaxis for some time. He doesn't have my sympathy for simply leaving Civ as it is. Especially since he said Civ had a good foundation and that they'd develop it further from there. Develop it further apparently = one major patch, then adios. -_-

Irresponsible. Elemental is in need of help but Jon gets no points from me for his actions. Such a shame.
 
Remind me not to buy Stardock games. Sound like a step down job to me.
I see that Stardock is a 3 man company that is suffering from very disapointed customers who find the game uninteresting and poorly executed. Read the forums. Now they are getting a hard time for hiring Schafer. No-one steps from a big organisation to a crappy small one by choice.

Thanks for mentioning that. I filled up on LOLs for the night. :lol:

And you decide to hire the guy that ruined the 20-year old Civilization franchise???
By rebelito on January 4, 2011 7:09:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Dear FrogBoy,

I have owned most of your titles since GalCiv1. I enjoyed your creations thoroughly. Now, I was about to buy Elemental after reading how much better it became with patch 1.1. I wanted to buy Elemental because the lead designer of Civilization 5 ruined my civ experience after 20 years of loyal support.

Not anymore. I will not buy any other game that this person touches. I know of many that were thinking along the same lines, and were about to put money into Elemental to run away from the monster that this "lead designer" created and that is not true to the succesful principles that made Civilization the best franchise ever.

With this move, I think you lost a huge amount of potential sales that were about to happen, Brad. I'm sorry. Good luck, you will need it now.
 
Long time lurker, first time poster. Some of the replies in this thread are truly sad. Character assasinations of a guy you don't know, because you don't like a game (yes a GAME) he designed. Pathetic. You should be ashamed, and you know who you are.
 
So I go over to Stardock and start reading this post about Shafer joining. By the fourth reply a guy shows up and says he is the CEO.

"Yes. That is the public version of the explanation and the broadly correct description. I'm the CEO. All failures are on my doorstep."

Something tells me that game will do just fine.

http://forums.stardock.com/403506
 
So I go over to Stardock and start reading this post about Shafer joining. By the fourth reply a guy shows up and says he is the CEO.

"Yes. That is the public version of the explanation and the broadly correct description. I'm the CEO. All failures are on my doorstep."

Something tells me that game will do just fine.

http://forums.stardock.com/403506
Yep. That is Brad Wardell. Nice to see the CEO actively engaging with the fans in the forums (as Kael does there too, and presumably Jon will do).
 
Really, some of you are really funny. This LONE guy ruined a game that was done by hundreds of persons! :rolleyes: As if he didn't have a publisher and investors watching over his shoulder, and lots of people doing tasks he had no control on. Brad said it better:

Don't be insane.

Do you have any idea how much of the design process as well as scheduling is altered when you're dealing with a publicly traded company?

Seriously. If you don't like Civ V, think carefully about what it is you don't like about it. Seriously.

Moreover, as some have already observed, Kael is the one taking over design on Elemental from me. We desperately need someone who has AAA experience in extending game engines.

Don't let the din of the Internet fool you. The outstanding qualities of a given person are not what they often seem to be. You guys who love Kael so much don't realize that what makes him a magical super being is that he's an enterprise level project manager. Similarly, what makes Jon so amazing is his ability to extend what is there in new and interesting ways. These are crucial, important and most crucially, rare talents in our industry.

If you don't like Civ V, don't blame Jon. Don't blame Firaxis either. The truth behind games is a lot more complex than it seems on the surface.

As someone whose job for the past 2+ years has been to be a human punching bag for other people's decisions, I can tell you that the Internet "narrative" is almost never right.


Congratulations to Jon for joining Stardock, and I'm glad that he joined an independent company that will allow him to fulfill his vision. I know from experience how crappy the AAA game industry is regarding creativity, and the benefits of the indie way. Good luck, Jon!
 
Some interesting insights in this thread. Hopefully the next project won't turn out quite like Civ5 did. More great games are good for all of us.
 
I like this line:

If you don't like Civ V, don't blame Jon. Don't blame Firaxis either. The truth behind games is a lot more complex than it seems on the surface.

...makes me wonder what inside info Jon told Brad about his Civ V experience.
 
And here I thought Jon deserved pity for being fired. Apparently what he meant by "I will be around to work on Civ as long as I can" was that he already had a job offer lined up and had been planning to leave Firaxis for some time.

I bet Jon spent an extra month past his leave date to try and fix this game up before he moved. Maybe two months, if so he went above and beyond what was expected and I can see why Firaxis has been having issues shifting responsibility.

All of you should be happy for Stardock and Firaxis. I'm sure it's been a tough transition for Jon and Firaxis and they've done the best they can.
 
I like this line:

If you don't like Civ V, don't blame Jon. Don't blame Firaxis either. The truth behind games is a lot more complex than it seems on the surface.
...makes me wonder what inside info Jon told Brad about his Civ V experience.

Pure speculation...

1. Game design is ridiculously difficult no matter how long you've been doing it. Seems like most PC strategy game developers have taken their lumps lately. Paradox Interactive, Creative Assembly, Stardock, Firaxis etc.

2. The Game Engine (still Gamebryo?). Emergent laid off nearly all their engineers over the last year while declaring bankruptcy.

3. The Publisher - 2KGames, not giving them the full financial support they needed.
 
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