KhaNESII: S.P.Q.R

I do not rely on the Plebeians, and I do not know if they love me or not. I am honored that you believe I am loved by them. I do not rely on the Plebeians as a source of power. I respect them and care for them as Roman citizens of this empire.
.

Did I say that you are loved? No, I said you love the people. There is a difference.


The Senate exists to serve Rome. And Rome is The Roman People and citizens. We command respect, which you seem to not be able to show. Your view of the senate is egotistical and selfish. You see nothing more than your private power and honor and do more to insult and lower the honor of the Romans. It is you who will bring Rome into a spiral of chaos and civil unrest and warfare with your selfish ideals.

Senate does not exist to serve Rome. We, the Senate, are Rome. The Senators are leaders, not servants. We are Romans, not Athenians and their silly concepts of Democracy. Whatever we decide here is the Will of the Republic as a whole. The people do not have this power.

You speak as if the Will of the State is somehow separate from the Will of the Senate, as if they are somehow separate.

This is false.

A person living in our province of Africa does not naturally care about the woes of those in Gaul. People living in Sicily does not naturally care about our woes in Hispania.

It is we, the Senate, who cares. It is we, the Senate, who knows. Our combined powers and knowledge is greater than any other organization in the known world. If there is any that oppose our will, than it will die. It will die so that we, the Senate and the People of Rome, may live in peace. We are not the servants of the Roman People. We are their Leaders. It is a Greek thought to believe that a Leader is a servant of the People.

It is not a Roman Thought. Roman thoughts make sense. A leader leads, he does not serve. If Rome, as a people, rules over the entire world, does the entire world rule over Rome? No, Rome rules the entire world.

Anything else is filthy heresy.


And I see nothing more than my own powers and honors? Oh please. I have never mentioned my own personal glory. I only seek to bring the State to its full glory. Do you see me here running for the consulship? I don't think so.


But it did. The Plebeians were much better fed than are without the Gracchii Reforms. I do not support the reforms for the support of the plebeians. That is only your selfish view, where you think we all only care for our own power and influence. My interest is that Roman citizens will be able to work for their living, own their own lands and be able to feed themselves.

That is an assertion. A land itself does not feed a Plebian if he does not effectively farm it. Also, your interest? What use does YOUR interest hold in the sacred halls of the Senate? You must convince us that the Reforms are in the best interest of the State and the Senate.

Your interests means Jack. Putting forth your interest over those of the Republic, as you seem to be doing, is unbecoming of a consul.

The Grain Dole will weaken the Roman economy far more than the Gracchii reforms. It will be a constant, and growing hole in the Roman balance.
And how would you go about improving the grain output? By magic perhaps? Or perhaps by granting them more lands - and creating many more poor, increasing the Grain Dole beyond any possible way of fulfilling.

Also an assertion. You do not know the effects of either policies as it has not happened yet. I merely wish for the less chaotic route.

Improving infrastructure in breadbasket provinces such as Africa and Sicily will improve grain output.

Not breaking apart large plantations will not decrease our grain output.

It's simple like that.



Your observation are simplistic and egotistical. They are also flawed and wrong. I do not consider those who disagree with me as my rivals. If they were to be my rivals, why would I support both of them to control legions of the empire?

You keep saying the word, egotistic, yet you do not seem to know what that means. Egotistic implies that I will get something out of said observation. Egotistic implies that I never care for another person's valuable opinion.

But I will apologize anyways for my, perhaps out of the line, remarks that these men were your rivals. Surely you were not planning to put them in dangerous campaigns in order that they may see an early death. Surely you were not planning to send them away in commands of the legions in order that their votes not be counted any more in the halls of the senate.

As you are an honorable man who would never deign to such activities, I offer my sincerest apologies.


Learn manners. You are speaking with such disgrace and insults at an honorable senator of Rome. You speak of respect and honor, but show none. Those territories are already the least stable. A man of intrigue and ability to move secret plans and plots is ideal to Anatolia, where the king of Pontus always looks to topple the Roman control over the area.

A True Roman bows to nobody. A true Roman is an honest man with a simple tongue. He speaks what is on his mind. I will offer my apologies that I suggested that you were a sinister criminal mastermind with ulterior motives to almost every bloody action that you take. It was not my intention to say so.

What I had intended to say is that I completely understand your logic to employ Cassidorous, joy of every party and a patron of Bacchus, as your spymaster in Anatolia. Yes.


Why would I not? I enjoy what life has to offer. The province is also highly stable and high in its economic power, and I, as a management person at heart, would do well to control such a province for Rome to prosper, as well as myself, I do not deny that. It is also the reason I see Titus Lucretius Longus as a good candidate for the other richest province of our empire. He is also a man of managment who could probably control a province to th very best.

Yes, I completely see the reasoning behind sending two inexperienced senators to the most dangerous places in our territories while those who are experienced with dealing with management lounge in Italy.

I also applaud your forthrightness in claiming that you will use your position of consulship in order for personal prosperity. Such forthrightness is truly becoming of a True Roman.

Such position, however, is not, you propudium.
 
Yes, I completely see the reasoning behind sending two inexperienced senators to the most dangerous places in our territories while those who are experienced with dealing with management lounge in Italy.

''Sir, I am offended. I have fought with the Roman Army many times and I have been praised many times for my tactical and strategical skills in the battlefield. I would like an apology.''
 
''Sir, I am offended. I have fought with the Roman Army many times and I have been praised many times for my tactical and strategical skills in the battlefield. I would like an apology.''

Ah, but it is not battlefield tactics that is being put to the test, is it now? It's the freaking management skills. I doubt you have gathered that experience in combat.

I would, however, apologize for calling you a bloodthirsty maniac.
 
''Well, with the Gallic Tribes in our doorsteps and ready to invade, military skills are needed. If we follow your advice and send someone with only management skills and no military skills, then the Transalpine province will be lost. By the way, how do you say that I have no management skills without evidence?

Also, apology is accepted''
 
''Well, with the Gallic Tribes in our doorsteps and ready to invade, military skills are needed. If we follow your advice and send someone with only management skills and no military skills, then the Transalpine province will be lost. By the way, how do you say that I have no management skills without evidence?

Also, apology is accepted''

I had no idea that career soldier fresh off the battlefield came with much experience in management. Apologies.
 
We must nominate two generals to the fourth and fifth legions and station one in Anatolia and one in Transalpine Gaul for these provinces are the least stable of our empire, and we cannot risk Anatolia to be empty if Pontus will choose to wage war upon us again.

Just as a note, you can send Legions without Generals to places. They won't attack anything, and they lack initiative, but they will defend themselves if attacked, which is what you are going for.
 
Spoiler :
OOC Political Analysis

Erez-Supporters: DCnumbers , Christos
Opinions on Political Issues

-Gracchi Reforms Reinstituted until alternative reforms found.
-Very Limited Grain Dole
-2 Legions sent to deal with filthy barbarians. Bonefang + Ekolite General
-Sulla Triumph Revoked

Minor Issues
Anatolia and 1 Legion to be governed by talonschild
Italy/Sicily to be governed by momo/erez
1 Legion remains in Rome
1 Legion to be commanded by Christos, who will be given the province of Tranalpine Gaul



SamSniped-(Popcorns Lord)
Opinions on Political Issues
Gracchi Reform rejected. Alternative reform sought after.
Grain Dole accepted
2 Legions sent to deal with filthy Barbarians. Suggested Generals: Samsniped + Germanicus
Sulla’s Triumph Revoked.

Ekolite- Thomas.berubeg, Seon, Germanicus
Opinions on Political Issues
Gracchi Reforms Rejected. Plantations will continue to grow. Alternative focus on craftsmanship and encouragement of urbanization will increase economic growth and give work to displaced plebs.

Grain Dole reinstated using taxation from plantations.

Strong response to the barbarians. No Legion commanders specified.

Sulla’s triumph Revoked
Spoiler :



Not Voting Yet: Talonschild. Nintz. Eltain. Bonefang. Momo1000


Unless Popcornlord's campaign brings into his fold the rest of the Not Voting yet Column of people, most likely Consuls of the New Roman Republic will be Ekolite and Erez.
 
ooc: One small mistake, I am against one person controlling more than one thing. In both Gaul and Anatolia there should be both a general and governor, not one as both.

Also currently there are 4 people that have not supported anyone, 4 for me, 4 for ekolite and 2 for samsniped.
 
Ich bin ein Romischer!

Name: Servius Arrius Celsus Aemilianus (theDright)
Personal History: The son of the now-deceased Oppius Aemilius Nasica, a Senator owning productive estates in Hispania, Servius has spent most of his childhood on his family's provincial estates, learning both commercial practices from his father; classics from his Greek tutor, Balbinus; and how to deal with the barbarian Celtiberi from the chief overseer, Kaeso Granius Senna, a veteran of Marius' Numidian campaigns. Oppius died just in 80 BC in Hispania, and now Servius returns to Rome with his tutor Balbinus, a city he has only lived infrequently during his childhood, in order to take up the Arrii's Senatorial role after his adoption by his deceased and childless uncle, Servius Arrius Crassipes, a good friend of his father.
 
OOC: At Seon's prodding I shall be joining.

Appius Tanicius Uticensis came strolling into the Senate chambers,

"My good Senators I apologize for being but it appears our debates have attracted quite a large crowd of Plebs and finding an agreeable entrance took some significant effort. Don't worry about catching me up though, you could hear the conversation throughout the building."

Tanicius took a seat in the middle row with a sigh.

"As a member of a family that has benefited greatly since the repeal of the reforms, which I say with no regrets, I agree with the quite passionate Laconibus that reinstating them will cause much more damage for Rome than raising the Grain Dole. The Plebs can be easily distracted while the Patricians have long memories and more resources at their disposal. Its better to take a hit in the treasury right now as well as further improve the farming infrastructure that to risk shattering the already weakened Republic."

"As well I vote Bruscius for Consul."
 
Welcome aboard to theDright and Merciary!

Your stats will be up shortly.

Just as a note, please do not vote yet. There will be a formal voting period starting in 12 hours in which you will have plenty of time to do so.

Any vote before that won't be counted formally (because its murder on me :p).
 
Welcome aboard to theDright and Merciary!

Your stats will be up shortly.

Just as a note, please do not vote yet. There will be a formal voting period starting in 12 hours in which you will have plenty of time to do so.

Any vote before that won't be counted formally (because its murder on me :p).
Ah don't worry, I'm keeping an excel with all votes, and stats and names of people. I'm having fun :)
 
@erez: while I appreciate that, I'd still rather have people vote within the designated voting times in a specific format.

After all, you don't see people voting in June in US elections :p

Your stats, gentlemen.

Spoiler :
Name: Servius Arrius Celsus Aemilianus (theDright)
Location: Rome
Command: 0
Intrigue: 0
Management: 1
Governorships:
Funds: 0
Armies: 600 auxiliaries, 100 scouts
Traits: Plantation Man (+1 Management)

Name: Appius Tanicius Uticensis (merciary)
Location: Rome
Command: 0
Intrigue: 1
Management: 0
Governorships:
Funds: 0
Armies: 600 auxiliaries, 100 scouts
Traits: Old Patrician (+1 Intrigue)
 
Honorable Senators. I believe that what the plebians need is something to distract them from their hunger. News of victory overseas, a Triumph or two, that will soon make them forget of the problems at home.

We need to expand the republic, bring more lands into the rule of the Senate, the only true rule in this world, and all will be well.
 
Hunger can only be answered by food. I will support and take into action any plan that would feed the starving. I do not believe enlarging the plantation would help, it would only create more starving people.

Lucius - what do you suggest? What poor nation deserves our punishment just to not have to worry about feeding people are are dying of hunger and to keep the rich plantation holders happy?
 
Simply put, I believe Egypt would be the proper choice for expansion. The glorious campaign conducted by the great legions of Rome, would incorporate a great breadbasket into the empire, thus striking two birds with one stone. While Egypt is powerful, none can truly stand against the might of the Roman Legions.
 
Simply put, I believe Egypt would be the proper choice for expansion. The glorious campaign conducted by the great legions of Rome, would incorporate a great breadbasket into the empire, thus striking two birds with one stone. While Egypt is powerful, none can truly stand against the might of the Roman Legions.
I cannot believe you are serious senator. For the reason of answering to the rich and not caring for feeding the poor you will invade, cause the deaths of thousands of soldiers and destruction of a state that is friendly with us?

I am shocked.

I am obviously and most massively against that.
 
I care truly about the might of Rome! No opposing force can stand against the Roman Legions, and, while Egypt may be a "Friend," we all know that friendship is not to be trusted... And, even if it were, what kind of rule does the Hellen truly have? Nothing that cannot be improved upon by the rule of the Senate.

Perhaps I speak idiocies. Forgive me, for I have never truly known anything but the campaign, where we are taught to speak our thoughts, not to hide them away and lie and weasel our way around.
 
I care truly about the might of Rome! No opposing force can stand against the Roman Legions, and, while Egypt may be a "Friend," we all know that friendship is not to be trusted... And, even if it were, what kind of rule does the Hellen truly have? Nothing that cannot be improved upon by the rule of the Senate.

Perhaps I speak idiocies. Forgive me, for I have never truly known anything but the campaign, where we are taught to speak our thoughts, not to hide them away and lie and weasel our way around.
Such a poor fellow. I feel sorry for your soul my friend.
 
Lots of stuff.

Sub post, will read and respond later on, but know that Cassius Flavius Livius is here.
 
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