Khazad are tough to play
- Thread starter Yarnosh
- Start date
Believe it stands for Rapid Expansion.
RabbitDynamite
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2009
- Messages
- 13
Rapid Early Expansion, basically conquering or settler spamming to fill up all available space, typically until your economy is curled up in a corner and whimpering for mercy.
JonathanStrange
PrinceWithA1000Enemies
What is REX? That should be in the lexicon of every Civ player alongside DOW, CE vs SE, whip, chop, and JStrange is godking.
Ribusprissin
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2009
- Messages
- 114
Orks don't have a turret limit.
Rutee
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
- Messages
- 178
Dammit, Shatner said everything that needed saying.
"No advantages for the Khazad"? Outproducing the rest of the world put together after gobbling up one civ in the mid game is sufficient for me, thank you very much >.>
Edit: This is not simply something that happens against AI civs either. First game me and my friends finished involved me as Khazad informing the Amurites that Beards belongs on Dwarves and their women, not wimpy men in dresses. The Sidar quickly conceded after that curbstomping.
"No advantages for the Khazad"? Outproducing the rest of the world put together after gobbling up one civ in the mid game is sufficient for me, thank you very much >.>
Edit: This is not simply something that happens against AI civs either. First game me and my friends finished involved me as Khazad informing the Amurites that Beards belongs on Dwarves and their women, not wimpy men in dresses. The Sidar quickly conceded after that curbstomping.
Not quite. One of the original complaints was that seige engines are slow. And they are. But thats not so much of a problem when you can create 3-4 stacks of cheap & expendable Trebuchets (with cheap & expendable defenders) to precede your main SoD. These seige-stacks along with horsemen make for quick conquest (or razing) after just a little prep-work.
Rutee
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
- Messages
- 178
I was sort of wonderring whether humans also did the Stack of Doom thing...
I prefer a larger number of Stacks of Woe. Not quite as intimidating, but less vulnerable to a focused counter-attack.
Senethro
Overlord
I prefer a Stack of Zoom. I always use Raiders trait and always use Haste Adepts. You don't have to worry about defending if you can alway choose when to attack.
Ribusprissin
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2009
- Messages
- 114
lols no; Dawn of War is an RTS. In DoW and its sequelspansions, a turret is an autonomous emplaced gun, and most races have a small number of turrets which can exist at once. Orks can build as many turrets as they have money and room for.Orks dont have a Turret Limit? Sounds like one of those sexy games where you can make your own vehicles/ spaceships.
One thing on one has mentions is that being slow doesnt matter if your in a ship.
With the high hammers I can easily dominate the waters (so oar crew is safe), pretty soon Ill have gunpowder and with a couple of cannons in my invasions should be able to destroy the defences of any costal city and collateral them very quickly even after the turn of unloading. Since I have more hammers then I know what to do with why not send out a few extra sail powered cannons to other cities to keep them guessing where the real attack will come.
With the high hammers I can easily dominate the waters (so oar crew is safe), pretty soon Ill have gunpowder and with a couple of cannons in my invasions should be able to destroy the defences of any costal city and collateral them very quickly even after the turn of unloading. Since I have more hammers then I know what to do with why not send out a few extra sail powered cannons to other cities to keep them guessing where the real attack will come.
ah, see, you did not specify which game in that post ... and must have been in reply to something a bit farther up.
aanyways, isnt the non turret limit because its also its pop-maxing building?
It would be slightly nifty to now add turret limits to a game akin to GalCivII, where certain races can ignore the turret limit for other penalties or somesuch.
aanyways, isnt the non turret limit because its also its pop-maxing building?
It would be slightly nifty to now add turret limits to a game akin to GalCivII, where certain races can ignore the turret limit for other penalties or somesuch.
I played my first Khazad game (Diety, Pangea) after reading this thread. And WOW, they were so strong it felt like I was cheating. The city defense and production bonuses made surviving that critical, brutal early stage much easier.
I think you want to run at zero science a lot. Is getting a tech eight turns from now instead of fourteen turns from now worth giving up a hammer bonus? Usually not. At the start, go zero science until you're actually ready to build your first worker, for instance. Don't research writing until you're actually ready to build the libraries. etc. With other civs, it doesn't hurt you as much if you thoughtlessly throw beakers into things which aren't immediately useful (though clearly, it's not optimal play with any civ).
How much you mind the slowness of siege might depend on the game speed you play at. I play at Epic, so I don't really care if my trebs take a few turns to reach that enemy city. I can see how your perspective would be different if you're playing at Quick. It's no fun having your army be obsolete by the time it reaches the enemy.
Having to split the stack when taking a city with siege can be a pain, but if you've got a big stack against an AI city you can usually get away with killing all but one defender and taking the city the next turn.
I think you want to run at zero science a lot. Is getting a tech eight turns from now instead of fourteen turns from now worth giving up a hammer bonus? Usually not. At the start, go zero science until you're actually ready to build your first worker, for instance. Don't research writing until you're actually ready to build the libraries. etc. With other civs, it doesn't hurt you as much if you thoughtlessly throw beakers into things which aren't immediately useful (though clearly, it's not optimal play with any civ).
How much you mind the slowness of siege might depend on the game speed you play at. I play at Epic, so I don't really care if my trebs take a few turns to reach that enemy city. I can see how your perspective would be different if you're playing at Quick. It's no fun having your army be obsolete by the time it reaches the enemy.
Having to split the stack when taking a city with siege can be a pain, but if you've got a big stack against an AI city you can usually get away with killing all but one defender and taking the city the next turn.
Only problem for Khazad early to mid game are stacks of Pyre Zombies. Higher production, stacks of troops and def bonus dont mean squat when you're getting colateralized. Either you take the Sheaim out before they get BW (sacrifice developement) or be prepared to lose at leaset one city.
This is a general problem for Sheaim neighbors and not Khazad specific. However being able to summon spam the Pyre zombies from a safe distance is not an option for Khazad.
This is a general problem for Sheaim neighbors and not Khazad specific. However being able to summon spam the Pyre zombies from a safe distance is not an option for Khazad.
Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
They can still use chariots, with their higher strength when attacking and 3 move. They're better at that strat than most civs because of aggressive and the fact that the pyre zombies can't screw over the khazad chariot's move by hiding behind hills.
Humakty
Happy Goblin
Trebuchet are a very good unit, and they upgrade to an even better unit, the dwarven cannon. 3 or 4 of them are enougth to smash to oblivion ennemy SoDs. And prod bonus makes the few of them that don't succeed withdrawal a joke of a loss !
I hadn't noticed there were so many pages on this thread ! My point as already been said over and over !
I hadn't noticed there were so many pages on this thread ! My point as already been said over and over !
This thread made me try out the Khazads and they rock... especially for a compulsive builder like me, as they seem to be extremely useful for early conquest 
. Granted, I play on Prince, so maybe a too easy level, but:
- Early conquest is a great way to fill the vaults
- Troops are plentyful - pretty much immediately, Warriors can be made every turn in main cities
¨
The thing that got to me, however, was that I was falling behind in tech... granted, I played against Hannah and Flauros which typically are fast techers, but I was also behind Bannor and Sheiam... I may have over-focused on producing troops (a first for me) though. It did however got me thinking - how do you prioritize tech order in the early-to-mid game with the Khazad?
My immediate instinct:
- Agriculture (get growth going)
- Crafting -> Mining (almost always gold available from start to support tech, happiness)
- Caldendar -> Festival (even with no Calendar resources - Agrarian is great for Khazads and Markets really help with filling the coffers)
- Ancient Chants / Mysticism / RoK (RoK shrine + religion happiness boost + temple gold bonus and ability to run merchants for coffers + Soldiers of Kilmorph to support new cities of for attack)
- Exploration / AH (to hook up resources and support health which is a problem)
It can be argued that Calendar / Festival isn't strictly a priority unless having several calendar resources; but at the same time typically food is scarce early. Would you have a different tech order above? If I have copper available, I'll likely prioritize bronze working and exploration earlier to go on the attack ASAP.
After the above is where I think it is hard to prioritize between the following - how do you prioritize between the following:
- Education/Writing/CoL - I typically build very few cottages; not sure whether this is dumb or not. Similarly, I don't often use Aristocracy, and in my Khazad game I found the -1 food to farms was seriously limiting growth as there are often few grasslands and few food resources
- Construction - Clearly, b-lining for this is useful to quickly get an attack stack
- Bronze working - Especially if I don't have copper and no jungles
- Priest-line - I really like Stonewardens - and this line has alot of synergy with Edu/Writing/CoL
- Arete- Bambur early is a great benefit (not the least b/c enchantment) and
the mines bonus is great. Also, it seems that building the mines give Iron even if you don't have Iron Working which really improves melee
- Trade Going on the offense means significant potential to extract techs for peace
Now... a very large number of these techs are synergistic (Education -> Writing -> Trade (with HBR) -> Philosophy -> CoL -> Priesthood and they also lead into the very useful Military Strategy. But at the same time, it feels like the most immediate bang for the buck for the Khazad is going Arete / Construction and then start stomping. What balance are you typically aiming for?
/Andreas
. Granted, I play on Prince, so maybe a too easy level, but:- Early conquest is a great way to fill the vaults
- Troops are plentyful - pretty much immediately, Warriors can be made every turn in main cities
¨
The thing that got to me, however, was that I was falling behind in tech... granted, I played against Hannah and Flauros which typically are fast techers, but I was also behind Bannor and Sheiam... I may have over-focused on producing troops (a first for me) though. It did however got me thinking - how do you prioritize tech order in the early-to-mid game with the Khazad?
My immediate instinct:
- Agriculture (get growth going)
- Crafting -> Mining (almost always gold available from start to support tech, happiness)
- Caldendar -> Festival (even with no Calendar resources - Agrarian is great for Khazads and Markets really help with filling the coffers)
- Ancient Chants / Mysticism / RoK (RoK shrine + religion happiness boost + temple gold bonus and ability to run merchants for coffers + Soldiers of Kilmorph to support new cities of for attack)
- Exploration / AH (to hook up resources and support health which is a problem)
It can be argued that Calendar / Festival isn't strictly a priority unless having several calendar resources; but at the same time typically food is scarce early. Would you have a different tech order above? If I have copper available, I'll likely prioritize bronze working and exploration earlier to go on the attack ASAP.
After the above is where I think it is hard to prioritize between the following - how do you prioritize between the following:
- Education/Writing/CoL - I typically build very few cottages; not sure whether this is dumb or not. Similarly, I don't often use Aristocracy, and in my Khazad game I found the -1 food to farms was seriously limiting growth as there are often few grasslands and few food resources
- Construction - Clearly, b-lining for this is useful to quickly get an attack stack
- Bronze working - Especially if I don't have copper and no jungles
- Priest-line - I really like Stonewardens - and this line has alot of synergy with Edu/Writing/CoL
- Arete- Bambur early is a great benefit (not the least b/c enchantment) and
the mines bonus is great. Also, it seems that building the mines give Iron even if you don't have Iron Working which really improves melee
- Trade Going on the offense means significant potential to extract techs for peace
Now... a very large number of these techs are synergistic (Education -> Writing -> Trade (with HBR) -> Philosophy -> CoL -> Priesthood and they also lead into the very useful Military Strategy. But at the same time, it feels like the most immediate bang for the buck for the Khazad is going Arete / Construction and then start stomping. What balance are you typically aiming for?
/Andreas
well, no aristo and little cottages signals your tech problems easily enough. Even when playing as the khazad, you should have a few flatland cities to support your economy (while hilly cities provide production). If you don't like the food penalty, make a few cottage-towns (enough food to use the entire cross, 1 or 2 mines if all-grassland for buildings, rest cottages). Expecially when founding RoK in one of these towns you should have little difficulty keeping the pace techwise.
