Leaders

[Thalassicus]

I was in the process of rewriting it when I realized a National Wonder would work. It's up to date now:

• Sejong: +1 Science from Farms. (renamed "Choson Dynasty")
• Sejong: Jade Hall national wonder gives 1 free technology, and +2 for all specialists in all cities.

The free technology replaces the similar effect that was on the trait. It's basically like a combination of the old Great Library plus a sci-focused Statue of Liberty, all in the Classical era.

 

[Txurce]

I was in the process of rewriting it once I realized a National Wonder would fit well.

I just read it and have to say that, on paper, it looks like genius. Not only is the UA 100% a matter of choices, but the Jade Hall strongly encourages an early NC, which tilts Korea toward an appropriate tall style of play (as do the farms). Tall science-focused civ, defensive UU's: this should be exactly what a certain segment of the VEM community is looking for.

 

[Seek]

Was giving some more thought to Polynesia; would it be possible to allow them alternate versions of the Moai, giving a choice of +1 food or production (possibly reducing the base culture back to 2)? It would make them much more versatile and fun to play.

 

[Txurce]

The downside of that notion is that it goes directly against the historical effect of the Moai (they basically destroyed food and production!).

 

[Seek]

True, but I think in this case gameplay can trump realism - I found them terribly disappointing to play as and the AI never does well with them.

 

[Txurce]

True, but I think in this case gameplay can trump realism - I found them terribly disappointing to play as and the AI never does well with them.

I really enjoyed them when they first came out, but haven't used them again, just because I've been checking out other stuff. Thal seems to really like them. But they're clearly not popular.

The AI often gets off to a very fast start with them, sometimes has huge cities, and is a legitimate challenger for a CV. But those don't happen very often, and Polynesia fades quickly approaching the halfway mark.

 

[albie_123]

I love playing as Polynesia right now, and usually wait on building Moai until my cities are developed.

I think adding food or production to them is, well, silly. I know that gameplay trumps realism but this would really make very little sense.

EDIT: I made an Icon for the Jade Hall, based off of Sujeongjeon inside the Gyeongbokgung Palace. That's where the 'jade hall' - which was actually called the Hall of Worthies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_of_Worthies) - was located, and according to the little bit of research I did, the hall was little more than a small room, where the cabinet of Sejong would meet and discuss, and where the modern Korean language (Hangul) was created. Icon's all from scratch, except the bits of foliage, which I stole from Himeji Castle

 

[Thalassicus]

Polynesia has actually rated decently in the favorite leader polls, always in the middle tier. The one change I'd make to Polynesia is to find a way to enforce ocean rifts on the continents-plus map. Ocean travel isn't very important on that map because the island placement algorithm doesn't leave open spaces of ocean to separate the major continents.

@Albie
That looks fantastic! My earlier statement about "256px" images was inaccurate. Icons are 256, but the actual "image part" of icons are 171px, with empty borders around it. Could you upload it in a 171px size? I figure it's better to let you resize it with the original vector art, instead of me doing a raster resize and losing a little quality.

 

[albie_123]

Sure thing, I'll attach a smaller version of the Levy icon as well! Always glad to help in any way I can.

And Continents Plus has a few issues when it comes to tectonics, really. It's the best map available by a long way, but it's not perfect. Lakes are always either one tile or gigantic - never in between - and never close together (ala the Great Lakes), peninsulas go in a very odd fashion where they fan out at the end instead of the more natural becoming thinner / connecting to island chains, and, as you said, Continents seem to always span from ice cap to ice cap, and that last issue is the one that affects gameplay the most. There usually is no option to go around the 'southern tip of Africa', so to speak.

One thing that I've always found odd about Kamehameha is that Firaxis seem to have designed his UA / UI around being on a long strech of coast, instead of on a small chain of islands. I very rarely get the chance to have three Moai next to one another, so long coasts are always the best bet for large amounts of culture, which is a shame. Polynesia should be about settling island chains, not a large coastal empire.

 

[bwoww78]

Continents seem to always span from ice cap to ice cap, and that last issue is the one that affects gameplay the most. There usually is no option to go around the 'southern tip of Africa', so to speak.

fwiw, i'd recommend InGame Editor to help with this issue. Awesome, very well supported mod, and from my experience completely compatible with VEM.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=436912

 

[albie_123]

fwiw, i'd recommend InGame Editor to help with this issue. Awesome, very well supported mod, and from my experience completely compatible with VEM.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=436912

Looks very promising, but I do hate having to peek at the map, or edit it once I've started playing. Can never shake the feeling that I've cheated, even if it was to improve my own fun

 

[bwoww78]

ha, i totally understand. the temptation is always there. but it's designed to be easy enough to ignore altogether (if have enough self control...) until you discover that land-locked straight. you could even charge yourself gold for the modification (a canal construction charge?)

 

[albie_123]

There's speculation that terraforming tiles might be part of the Dutch UI in G&K. I doubt it will be ocean to land - most likely just marsh to plains - but I can dream

 

[Txurce]

as you said, Continents seem to always span from ice cap to ice cap, and that last issue is the one that affects gameplay the most. There usually is no option to go around the 'southern tip of Africa', so to speak.

One thing that I've always found odd about Kamehameha is that Firaxis seem to have designed his UA / UI around being on a long strech of coast, instead of on a small chain of islands.

I think Thal referred to shallow water linking the continents on one side, making Astronomy (and having to go "around the Horn") much less important.

I know what you mean about an island start. They were probably factoring that there usually are no island chains on which to start Polynesia in the standard maps provided.

 

[Seek]

One thing that I've always found odd about Kamehameha is that Firaxis seem to have designed his UA / UI around being on a long strech of coast, instead of on a small chain of islands. I very rarely get the chance to have three Moai next to one another, so long coasts are always the best bet for large amounts of culture, which is a shame. Polynesia should be about settling island chains, not a large coastal empire.

It would have been much more logical if the Maori culture was based on the number of ocean tiles adjacent to them.

 

[albie_123]

@Txurce
Ah, that makes just as much sense, and is a problem that has come up in many games for me. I guess it's just luck of the draw whether continents end up right next to each other, with the 3/4ths of the globe ocean, or right away from each other.

@Seek
Now THAT is a good idea, and one I can't believe hasn't come up before.

 

[Txurce]

@Txurce
Ah, that makes just as much sense, and is a problem that has come up in many games for me. I guess it's just luck of the draw whether continents end up right next to each other, with the 3/4ths of the globe ocean, or right away from each other.

Yeah, there's probably more of a luck factor in Plus than in Continents with regard to reaching the other continent. But it's still faster on Plus, and I much prefer its maps. I just wish it didn't make Astronomy as much of an afterthought.

 

[Thalassicus]

@albie_123
I like how you increased the levy's size and changed the spear to a more defensive posture. It looks much better at small sizes now.

@Seek
I tried doing that as soon as Polynesia was released. It turned out to be impractical at the time... but I have a lot more coding experience now, so it might not be so hard anymore.

 

[Txurce]

Does Babylon still get GS 50% faster? It's not on the opening screen.

 

[albie_123]

@Seek
I tried doing that as soon as Polynesia was released. It turned out to be impractical at the time... but I have a lot more coding experience now, so it might not be so hard anymore.

I'd be in favour of the change, as long as it doesn't take too long for you to code. No sense spending more time than necessary on something small like this.