[MOD] MagisterModmod

[Gears]

Hi, I found this mod several days ago and like the changes you have done. Are there any plans to fix the broken worldbuilder?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

That said, I believe the game could use a couple of cottage-boosting civics or techs. Right now the situation is like this. Right now, the only boost they have is with Taxation, and that provides only a 20-25% boost in economic tile yield.

Compared to BtS, the farms in FfH are super-powered, but the cottages are positively anemic.

Now to be fair, this is a fantasy world in medieval-esque conditions, so I think it's acceptable when "spamming farms everywhere" is the default strategy for most civs. I just think a fully developed town should be slightly better than an Aristograrianism Farm so it pays off in the very long term at least. Currently a full town is actually slightly worse: 5 Commerce and like 50 turns of waiting time before you actually get to that point vs 2 Food and 2 Commerce instantly, and 2 Food is actually a bit better than 3 Commerce because you can hire a specialist with it which provides great people points in addition, plus Caste System bonus. One Production for Towns from the Guilds technology would imo bridge the gap, and a minor commerce and growth bonus from other civics could help make towns decidedly better in not Aristograrianism civs.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

What would you think if I made Sacrifice the Weak require Necromancy and permit Conscripting rather than Hurrying?

Drafting excess population to serve cannon-fodder seems lore-appropriate. You throw the weak into battle, sacrificing most of them but allowing a few to survive and become hardened warriors.

The way the game mechanic works is that a civic increases the maximum number of units you are able to draft in a city per turn (assuming sufficient population and low enough anger), rather than simply turning on or off the ability. The bonus from multiple civics that allow conscription should stack together, so Military State should become more valuable rather than less.

Dunno, you are the lore expert. Does it make sense for an evil civ to devote itself to the One when evil in Erebus is defined by opposition to the One?

this discussion is interesting I think.

my views :
-on Altar : I would think that Evil wouldn't build the altar which is normally built to reach / "worship" The One.
Ideally, I'd remove all effects of Altar once you switch to Evil.
Or the Altar transforms into a smaller prophecy of Ragnarok once you switch to Evil. (and gives a few xp to disciples)

Honestly, it does not make a lot of sense for any civ to devote itself to The One, considering that none of the gods have revealed his existence to any mortals.

The Archangels know, but they haven't told anyone either. I like to think that The Compact requires they keep it secret, but all Kael revealed is that Cassiel won't tell anyone because he believes The One does not want to be known or worshiped. Cassiel considers the desire to be worshiped to be Agares' greatest sin, which all the other gods have copied but which The One could never commit. He thus considers the Luonnotar to be blaspheming The One by worshiping Him.

(Kael himself has said that from a lore perspective the Altar of the Luonnotar really should have been a Unique Feature, perhaps with a series of rituals needed to improve that tile and leading to a victory condition, rather than a national wonder. That seems like too big a change for me to implement at this point though.)


Whether the Twenty-One gods themselves would want The One to return again depends largely on how they predict that The One will react. Agares long ago gave up any hope that his rebellion could truly succeed, and is now driven by a urge to prove that The One is just flawed as he is and is thus the one responsible for his faults. He does not want to destroy Creation himself, but wants to corrupt it enough that he presses The One's hand and forces his maker to unmake everything.

The last time The One interfered with creation was to protect Gabella, before she was suicidal. He is now perhaps the only one who could put her out of her misery, so Os-Gabella might want the Altars of the Luonnatar more than anyone.


At one point the Altars could prevent the spread of hell terrain, but that has not been true for a long time. Now I tend to think the big problem with the Altars in evil hands is that the later versions grant the Blessed promotion to units in the city, so I'm thinking of removing that.

I'm thinking I might make Chancels of the Guardians grant Blessed instead, increasing the building's cost and making it require Life mana to build (as its passive effects already require.) Actually, the Elohim do seems to be rather overpowered right now. What would you think of increasing the tech prereq of Chancels to Religious Law and/or of Reliquaries to Fanaticism?

 

[kjnoren]

Now to be fair, this is a fantasy world in medieval-esque conditions, so I think it's acceptable when "spamming farms everywhere" is the default strategy for most civs. I just think a fully developed town should be slightly better than an Aristograrianism Farm so it pays off in the very long term at least.

Yeah, I have nothing against having spamming farms everywhere as a valid strategy. The trouble is when it's the ceteris paribus best play for almost every civ, on almost every map.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

I'd strongly suggest changing the free specialist bonuses to the Grigori and Khazad palaces (even some wonders, but mainly just the palaces) to '+1 free specialist per 4 homesteads/mines'. It seems seriously broken atm.

So, does anyone have an opinion on the idea of removing the alignment restriction from the Altars of the Luonnotar?

I'm kind of conflicted on this, but I think the basic reason this problem comes along is that the Altar is far too easy of a victory condition compared to all others. Simply producing six great prophets and then building a wonder is a far superior alternative to conquering a large chunk of the map or spreading your religion to 80%. This has always been one of my biggest gripes with FfH (and civ in general, sometimes). We need a couple of less tedious victory conditions, and we wouldn't face this issue at all. (I would love to see something akin to UHV's in FfH, but I'm not sure if it is doable).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'd strongly suggest changing the free specialist bonuses to the Grigori and Khazad palaces (even some wonders, but mainly just the palaces) to '+1 free specialist per 4 homesteads/mines'. It seems seriously broken atm..

That is not something that is possible without an major overhaul of the DLL. The schema only allows integer numbers of free specialists for each of some improvement.

I'm kind of conflicted on this, but I think the basic reason this problem comes along is that the Altar is far too easy of a victory condition compared to all others. Simply producing six great prophets and then building a wonder is a far superior alternative to conquering a large chunk of the map or spreading your religion to 80%. This has always been one of my biggest gripes with FfH (and civ in general, sometimes). We need a couple of less tedious victory conditions, and we wouldn't face this issue at all. (I would love to see something akin to UHV's in FfH, but I'm not sure if it is doable).

As someone who usually plays with all victory conditions deactivated, I don't usually think in such terms. Like the Tower of Mastery, I only really pursue it for the in game benefits.

What is UHV?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

That is not something that is possible without an major overhaul of the DLL. The schema only allows integer numbers of free specialists for each of some improvement.

Somewhat unrelated, but Rhye's and Fall: Dawn of Civilization added an XML tag that emulates a mechanic from Civ5, where buildings can give extra yields to certain improved resources. E.g. Stables grant +1 extra production to improved horse tiles, Granaries grant +1 food to improved rice, wheat and corn etc.

What is UHV?

Unique Historical Victory. It's a hallmark feature of Rhye's and Fall of Civilization. Basically every civilization has a unique victory based on what they tried to accomplish in real life, made up of three independent conditions. If you accomplish two of these goals you get a free Golden Age, if you accomplish all three you win. For America for example their goals are something like "Make sure there are no European colonies in North America or the Caribbean and control or vassalize Mexico by 1900AD", "Build the Statue of Liberty, Pentagon and United Nations by 1950AD", and "Acquire 10 Oil resources by 2010AD". For Greece it's "Be the first civ to discover Philosophy, Drama and Literature", "Build the Colossus, the Oracle, the Parthenon and the Temple of Artemis by 200BC" and "Control Egypt, the Levant, Asia Minor, Mesopotamia and Persia by 330BC".

The idea certainly sounds interesting, but it would be a lot of work to even think up 3 different unique and lore fitting goals for each of the 21 civs, never mind actually implementing them in the game. Still, just as a thought experiment let me throw out a few ideas:

Sheaim: Bring the Armageddon counter up to 100, make sure there are no good or neutral civs by Turn 400, and build Prophecy of Ragnarok, Soul Forge and Catacomb Librallus.
Calabim: Have the highest population and power rating in Turn 300, destroy the Malakim and build the Pillar of Chains by Turn 300.
Grigori: Make sure no civ follows the Theocracy, God King or Religion civics in Turn 200, have 20 Adventurers by Turn 300, and have the highest Approval Rating in Erebus for any 100 turns.
Bannor: Make sure there are no evil civs by Turn 400, make sure no city in the world has an evil religion by Turn 500, and make sure neither the Clan of Embers nor the Barbarians have any cities by turn 500.

 

[Cutlass]

I don't really know all that much of the lore. But why would any civ that follows another religion build the Altar? Seems like it's against what their state religion is. Seems like it should either be the Children, or at least No State Religion. And if you were building it as No State, you should have to stay that way from the time you built the first Altar to the finish. So you lose the benefit of having a religion, and that would make it harder to get prophets.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

That is not something that is possible without an major overhaul of the DLL. The schema only allows integer numbers of free specialists for each of some improvement.

Then simply remove those bonuses. They are quite broken IMO. The Khazad (and sometime the Grigori) are anyway powerful.

As someone who usually plays with all victory conditions deactivated, I don't usually think in such terms. Like the Tower of Mastery, I only really pursue it for the in game benefits.

So when do you abandon your games usually?

The idea certainly sounds interesting, but it would be a lot of work to even think up 3 different unique and lore fitting goals for each of the 21 civs, never mind actually implementing them in the game. Still, just as a thought experiment let me throw out a few ideas:

Sheaim: Bring the Armageddon counter up to 100, make sure there are no good or neutral civs by Turn 400, and build Prophecy of Ragnarok, Soul Forge and Catacomb Librallus.
Calabim: Have the highest population and power rating in Turn 300, destroy the Malakim and build the Pillar of Chains by Turn 300.
Grigori: Make sure no civ follows the Theocracy, God King or Religion civics in Turn 200, have 20 Adventurers by Turn 300, and have the highest Approval Rating in Erebus for any 100 turns.
Bannor: Make sure there are no evil civs by Turn 400, make sure no city in the world has an evil religion by Turn 500, and make sure neither the Clan of Embers nor the Barbarians have any cities by turn 500.

That is precisely the problem: some UHV's seem pretty accurate (and would be fun to play) like the Sheaim conditions you listed down. However, the Grigori conditions don't seem that good, and it would be hard to think of more conditions for all civs in this manner.

I don't really know all that much of the lore. But why would any civ that follows another religion build the Altar? Seems like it's against what their state religion is. Seems like it should either be the Children, or at least No State Religion. And if you were building it as No State, you should have to stay that way from the time you built the first Altar to the finish. So you lose the benefit of having a religion, and that would make it harder to get prophets.

But it is, like I said, the least tedious victory condition sometimes. We would need another different one if the Altar were restricted to No State Religion.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

I'd strongly suggest changing the free specialist bonuses to the Grigori and Khazad palaces (even some wonders, but mainly just the palaces) to '+1 free specialist per 4 homesteads/mines'.

Where can I find the code to change these anyway?


EDIT: Nvm, found it in the XML.

 

[AndrejH]

The Unholy Taint promotion says that it makes the unit a mage equalient, but my ritualists with it don't seem to get the metamagic 2 promotion despite my 4 meta magic manas.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I removed metamagic from the list of spell spheres that Unholy Taint lets you access quite a while back, and suppose I forgot to update that one text string. I think my reasoning was that Oghma is not evil and it makes more sense for it to only allow access to the spheres of the evil gods. I suppose I could be convinced to add it back though, as Oghma's vault is under siege by Mammon though and many of her angels have rebelled to join the enemy while still maintaining the characteristic powers of his sphere.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Hey, I managed to get whatever the latest version is to work for me, and I've really been enjoying it

I have a couple of problems: firstly, (relatively) infrequent CTD's. I expect them of these advanced FFH mods, so not a massive thing. Secondly, I couldn't adopt Overcouncil as the Khazad with Runes of Kilmorph, Way of the Wise, and Good Alignment. The description said I couldn't be Esus, but the game-generated text implied it was a bar against all state religions.

Finally, is there any way I can change the difficult directly via Worldbuilder?

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Secondly, I couldn't adopt Overcouncil as the Khazad with Runes of Kilmorph, Way of the Wise, and Good Alignment. The description said I couldn't be Esus, but the game-generated text implied it was a bar against all state religions.

Had the Empyrean been founded?

 

[Septentrion]

I don't think angels are supposed to keep their wings when they become repentant angels. Wings are a bit overpowered as the entire Mercurian Afterlife Army, except Basium, can pure in any land at any angle. Plus, it's odd to think of succubi flying across oceans. Large creatures shouldn't have the same benefits.

Meta-magic 3 overpowered. Free promotion for the summoned unit feels like it goes against the concept of promotion as well.

Dimensional 3 overpowered.

Dragon cult as Illains for the dragon isn't reliable. I thought they were more of an obstacle to her bones. Still, I had an adventurer at Divine Essence so that was a victory tech.

Illain immortals technically gets stronger with affinities so it didn't feel right either. What's with all these super affinities?

 

[Calavente]

Welcome to Magister's modmod... where everything is OP... and OP is balanced by the other civs having access to other OP features

 

[Arizael]

Did you consider an upgrade to lumber mills? Currently they just add one hammer on top of existing forests and enable river commerce.... and thats it. No bonuses from tech, no bonuses from civics. They are completely worthless, maybe with the exception with river adjacent ancient forests - maybe. This makes cutting your forests for hammers asap a no brainer as preserving them has no value.

 

[Arizael]

It seems that all new cities now start with 2 population. I absolutely hate that. Where can i mod it back ?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Did you consider an upgrade to lumber mills? Currently they just add one hammer on top of existing forests and enable river commerce.... and thats it. No bonuses from tech, no bonuses from civics. They are completely worthless, maybe with the exception with river adjacent ancient forests - maybe. This makes cutting your forests for hammers asap a no brainer as preserving them has no value.

They are equal to mines with regards to yields, and provide a bit of health on top. I'd say Lumbermills are much better than they are in unmodded BtS just from the fact that they come so early. I always keep some forests with Lumbermills around just for the health.

 

[kjnoren]

If you want to get more entries for the Civilopedia, Refsteel of Realms Beyond has written quite a few entries for the Erebus in the Balance mod. You can probably get some from the mod or from their designated thread.