Many Leaders Game 2 - Sword Training

[Sealot]

Worst: Sealot, Sealot, Sealot, Sealot, Sealot... Noble hero in action
Maybe 1st worker after 60 turns has something to do with that!

Seems to have been SimCity turnset for everyone.. Well done with all the wonders though!

 

[ChrTh]

Everyone looks in pretty good shape I'd say. Hope you're all enjoying the game.

I am!

Tech-wise everyone is going their own way. All Ancient Era techs are known,
The other thing that is intesting is the Espionage Points. pigswill has the most EP/turn and he's still got the slider on 0%. Why? He started building courthouses. The value of courthouses for espionage is HUGE. Hopefully we'll have ChrTh stealing some techs next turns to show us all how its done.

I hope so! ... although I need to make sure that I don't use up all my EPs otherwise I'll lose the passive advantages.

As I said in a previous post, one of the things my perverse nature is looking forward to is who gets into "handbags at ten paces" with Alex I wouldn't be surprised if he declares on someone in the next set, can guarantee he will by the end of the game (I'm banking on it in mine).

F@#!ing Alex. .... I know he'll declare on me. But that's ok, I'll make sure he pays when he does.

My main question to the group is: how are you feeling about the espionage system? Is it more work, less work, worthwhile work, etc.?

 

[Ozbenno]

My main question to the group is: how are you feeling about the espionage system? Is it more work, less work, worthwhile work, etc.?

I'm still a bit skepitical about it I must admit. I'm a complete tech-whore in Civ IV. If I ever have to move my science slider from 100% ever in a game I cry . So the thought of actually using the EP slider is abhorrent to me. Having said that, at higher levels when I'm in a tech fight to get certain techs first (Liberalism, Economics, Physics, all SS techs) it is handy to be able to weight your EP points to a certain opponent and see what they are researching. Also, if you're losing it may be a way to sabotage your way back into the game.

However, I'm willing to be dazzled by your use of EPs, ChrTh!

 

[r_rolo1]

^^I like the espionage system, in spite of asking some MM to be useful ( the weigths thing is somewhat.... heavy MM flavoured ). The big thing about espionage now is that AI don't handle it well ( they launch waves of spies against friendly civs ( not a good way to keep them friendly, methinks...), they insist in poisoning wells and in destroying resources ( destrying towns would be more productive and probably easier ), they amass heavy budget % to it ( slowing research )and forget the courthouses... ), not mentioning the spy bomb ( even if you don't use the points, the targeted AI normally dries their budget trying to compensate that 3000 point gap )

Adding all, I would say that is worthwhile work, but needs some refining ( like some leveling tools on the Espionage screen, like " assign to see all civs demo intel" ( would help ) or "compesate other civs espionage") and a better AI use of it. Oh well, let's wait for the next patch...

 

[Ozbenno]

Worst: Sealot, Sealot, Sealot, Sealot, Sealot... Noble hero in action

Just think of it as expansion potential .

Seriously, your game is very well focused with your civilization. You have Machinery, a UB that (with a barracks) can give double-promoted crossbows straight away. You have the most advanced military on the planet for hundered of years.

 

[pigswill]

Re espionage system. I'm just collecting espionage points at the moment. Don't really understand what I'm doing except that more is better than less.

Its certainly brand new to civ so I think it'll take a while before anyone provides a definitive strategy guide.

It seems like having spies in your own cities could be useful to counter AI spies but how Great Spies are neutralised I really don't know.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Alex will declare on Ghandi. Mark my words.

(it might be the other way around though)

 

[r_rolo1]

^^Not in my game ( they are religious buddies and the world has 3 major religions: Confu (me), Budha ( alex + gandhi , the dinamic duo ) and hindu ( KK and wash). Most probably alex will attack me or a hindu guy ( betting my money on me )

 

[TheLastOne36]

on you yes. BUT in most other games there deadly enemies....

 

[Kodii]

on you yes. BUT in most other games there deadly enemies....

Depending on the situation, yes, but not always.

If I am not mistaken, I think Ozbenno and I have the exact same city placement.

 

[pigswill]

In my version Gandhi founded Buddhism and Alex nabbed Hinduism (or was it the other way round?) and they've got close border issues so they're unlikely to be friends in the near future. Classic dishonourable play, wait for them to go to war then join the dogpile.

Edit: Does anyone know what happens if you capture AP. Does anyone know what happens if you raze AP city?.

 

[Kodii]

Does anyone know what happens if you capture AP. Does anyone know what happens if you raze AP city?

I would assume it would be the same case as the UN. However, with the religions tied to the AP, it could be slightly different. I would assume that the same religion is tied to the AP no matter whose hands it falls into. If it is razed, then the AP is no more.

 

[TheLastOne36]

good plan, i'm going to revolt to ghandi's religion, get him to declare, (or wait for him to) then dog pile on alex. on the way i could get churchill to help me as well.

next target would be attacking ghandi, with churchill's help.

after that Kublai Khan will likely attack me or someone with his keshik's, i'll try to hold him off, get knights and maces and pikes myself and kill him, churchill will be my last target, i should be able to beat him easily.

then i think a civ is hiding in a smaller seperate continent as that's how this map works, so ounce i'm done with my continent, i should assemble a fleet.

*yay*

will that plan work? likely not.

 

[Kodii]

good plan, i'm going to revolt to ghandi's religion, get him to declare, (or wait for him to) then dog pile on alex.

The last time I checked, Gandhi wasn't a warmongering freak. You're going to have some troubles with your plan.

 

[r_rolo1]

^^It would be far easier to ask alex to attack Gandhi and then dogpile alex....
and liberate those Roman citizen that think that are Greeks and Indians

 

[pigswill]

Backstabbing Alex sounds far more fun than backstabbing Gandhi.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Ghandi is a war freak if you FOUNDED a differint religion then he has Founded in my experience.

I think if you founded a religion, then an ai will hate you more if he also founded a different religion. Something to do with diplomacy and religion.

 

[TriviAl]

I'm really enjoying this game. Find it very nice to sit back, play a small chunk of turns at a time and write it up. Fascinating to see how other people play. Different to a normal SG as you get to see someones full game in action.

The CS slingshot is quite scarily impressive!

I'm moving back towards religion again. Didn't use it much for a long time in Warlords, felt the diplomatic penalties were too painful. Find between the apostolic palace bonus, religion spreading slower and I need a bigger military these days anyway...

 

[Ozbenno]

If I am not mistaken, I think Ozbenno and I have the exact same city placement.

You know what they say. "Great minds think alike", or is it "Fools never differ".

I remember noticing you had the same second city placement as me (I think its a great spot).

Actually, I have 5 cities and you have 4 (all in the same spot). Where my 5th city is, there is a barbarian city in your game

Ghandi is a war freak if you FOUNDED a differint religion then he has Founded in my experience.

You're definately playing a different game to me. I doubt I've ever had Gandhi declare on anyone in a game I've played. He's so easy to get to pleased, regardless of religion.

I'm really enjoying this game. Find it very nice to sit back, play a small chunk of turns at a time and write it up. Fascinating to see how other people play. Different to a normal SG as you get to see someones full game in action.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm moving back towards religion again. Didn't use it much for a long time in Warlords, felt the diplomatic penalties were too painful. Find between the apostolic palace bonus, religion spreading slower and I need a bigger military these days anyway...

Couldn't agree less . I'm extremely wary of adopting a religion until my power towers over Alex. If he and Gandhi were in the opposite positions I would but with him being so close, no way (although if he keeps spreading his religion (Judaism) to me I might swap to that.

 

[ChrTh]

On the matter of religion:

IIRC, one of the fun things you can do with Espionage is convert an AI's religion if he's not willing to change when you ask. I imagine I may use that to keep Alex Confused.

Of course, Alex will you anyway, so it's a temporary solution.