Mass Producing Apostle Help?

[Zaimejs]

I don't usually work for a religious victory, but I am looking for advice.

I am playing Russia and I have a bunch of cities, all with Lavras, shrines and temples and Wats. Several cities are in the tundra where I have my +7 faith bonus in play. I have at least 2 religious wonders giving bonuses... and all the political cards to boost my faith output. I am now getting 300+ faith per turn. I have taken the apostle discount as an upgrade and I am doing everything I can think of to maximize output.

With all this, I get 2 apostles every 3 turns or so, and the price for each apostle goes up each time. I have seen my enemies spamming me with 10-20 apostles all at once... with waves of them following. Right now, I am invading my neighbor with apostles, and she just seems to be able to pop 3 out at a time every turn. Even after I have converted many of her cities.

What am I doing wrong? How do I get to spam 5+ apostles a turn and have a wave of 20 holy warriors ready to convert entire civilizations?

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Peserwin]

First, don't use all of your apostles religion spreads but keep them otherwise they disband. Use cheaper missionaries for spreading your religion

Second, upgrade your religious governor to the point you can select apostle upgrades or befriend Yerevan so you can choose increased religious strength.

Build gurus to heal apostles. Keep them alive.

Hope this helps

 

[Zaimejs]

So you suggest spamming with a bunch of missionaries? But the apostle upgrades are so powerful (3x spread in other civs, +2 spreads, 75% elimination of other religions). It seems like it would take 10+ missionaries to do the work of one apostle... and I still don't get how the other civs crank out so many.

I will try this strategy though... just get an army of missionaries!

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

What difficulty you play and who is your enemy?
BTW
- Theocracy gives you 15% discount for Faith Purchases and your religion units 5% boost to theological combat.
- Moksha Patron Saint ability gives your Apostles one free promotion, this is very helpful:
Prioritize:
Use Debater promotion to religious fight: if you kill enemy unit it will help spread your religion
Use Proselytizer - easier converts.
- Don't let the religion-focused AI be suzerain of religious City-States.
If Apostles are left with one charge use them to a fight not for spread religion unless they have Debater promotion
Don't avoid fighting with religious units it helps with spreading your religion and weakens your enemy.
Sometimes it's worth considering war. But don't conquer cities. Just pillage Holy sites kill the opponent's religion units and use protected religion units to convert cities.

 

[Bangau]

I will try this strategy though... just get an army of missionaries!

Try a mix: send apostles and use all of their charges but the last, if your opponent has many religious units your apostles most important job is to 'fight'. Send guru's to heal them if their health is low. Send missionaries as well, use those to help convert. Just like in actual combat, a mix of units and smart unit placement works best. Try not to loose many (or any really) apostles, if you don't have guru's to heal them send them home to heal at your holy site.

 

[Aurelesk]

Theocracy helps a lot in the process: +5 in theological combat, another +5 with a card and a 15% discount. I tend to spare one charge of each Apostle when going in the war zone. If they are about to die, I just spread the last charge and deny the conversion aura from happening.

You can target key enemy cities first: not all of them have a Holy Site. If you convert all cities with a Holy Site, they cannot produce Missionary or Apostle. Then you finish the job easily.

Pay attention of additional bonus to combat strength / theological combat. Scythia is really a pain: they are stronger against damaged Apostle and heal when defeating one. I think the Mapuche also enjoy the +10 if you are in golden age, the USA on the same continent, the Aztecs with luxuries, Japan on coastal tiles, better intel (so watch out for France and Mongolian), and some beliefs also.

Missionary are great for converting cities with no religion on a early push, and Apostle better for converting cities with already a religion. If you manage to get your religion early, you can also try to kill the foreign religion before they spread. I remember my neighboor was about to get a religion, I surrounded his cities with a couple of missionnaries. I waited until he finally gains his Prophets and found his religion. The following turn: I erased it from existence.

 

[GunsGermsandSteel]

I have found I actually really enjoy religious victory. It's like domination lite.

Holy Order, which I think you took as one of your beliefs, its IMHO the best thing you can do for a religious victory. It helps you get the first 2 apostles faster for adding the last two beliefs. And then you can spam apostles and missionaries after. The trick I've found with religious victories is sending two 'packages' of religious units. 2 apostles, 2-3 missionaries, 1 guru. Apostles to ward of enemy apostles and inquisitors. Missionaries to rapidly spread. Gurus to make sure no one dies. Dying is really bad because you lose charges and nearby cities One sets up at one end of a civ, and the other at the other end. Then steamroll convert from both directions. Avoid theological combat with the AI unless you are certain you can beat their apostle. It's better to spread religion than die trying. "attacking" from two directions really makes the AI flounder. You can get the majority of their cities this way pretty easily and they'll often spread out their apostles/inquisitors to where you can pick them off. Even if you have the majority its still best to try to finish him off. It depends on the situation though, how many civs you've already converted and such.

 

[Zaimejs]

Terrific strategy. I have begun my two waves. I never really used gurus to full effect, but man, what a difference. I created a supernest of apostles... although I find that my enemy's are way stronger than mine... it usually takes 3 of mine to kill one of theirs. But gurus save the day! Thanks for the great advice! I hope to wrap this up... but man, turns take forever!

 

[Monsterzuma]

If your enemy spams a lot of Apostles, declare war on them and Condemn them with light cavalry units. This is a good situation if your military is strong, because it means your enemy is doing your work for you (-125 of their religion in several cities for every condemn).

 

[bbbt]

Terrific strategy. I have begun my two waves. I never really used gurus to full effect, but man, what a difference. I created a supernest of apostles... although I find that my enemy's are way stronger than mine... it usually takes 3 of mine to kill one of theirs. But gurus save the day! Thanks for the great advice! I hope to wrap this up... but man, turns take forever!

There's an apostle promotion that gives you +20 to religious combat. Theocracy also gives you bonus, and there's a policy card that does so. If your enemy is using those that is significant. Religious units also get support/flanking bonuses.

 

[satchel]

This is a cool thread -- I have engaged in theological combat for sport and find it weirdly satisfying. It makes me want to try a religious-victory game.

 

[Liegence]

I just won a religious victory game going Reliquaries. I had Yerevan and a relic from a goody hunt at my start and decided let’s do this. I took the religion benefit where losing religious units did not cause a penalty. Every Apostle I popped went Martyr and I would send them out to spread down to 1 charge then it started raining thunderbolts. I didn’t play mindless and kept Gurus around (like no more than 20%), but when they did die I got a +12 faith relic as a refund (which can double for tourism if your faith faulters)

One of my faster wins - was a ton of fun.

 

[GunsGermsandSteel]

Nice, I need to get into more relic play. Only tried it once all out. I got reliquaries but had trouble getting martyrs. France beat me to Mont St. Michael :/

I am interested in picking up the pack with Khmer, their missionaries have the martyr ability.

 

[Breadsmith]

I like Monastic Isolation. Sometimes you lose the religious battles, and it stops your religion from losing any pressure.