Pavel Chichikov
King
- Joined
- May 26, 2012
- Messages
- 674
Post from a long time lurker (6 years on & off). Forgive me for my clunky English.
Only just got back to Civ after a long break, so I haven't played the latest version of the mod. I used to mod RAFC a lot, but I'm bad with computers and always ended up breaking the game after a few weeks of tinkering or after attempted any radical change.
Please give some detailed feedback, as it took me quite a lot of effort & time to write this, and I'd be very interested to any reasons to why you could/couldn't include them.
Arabs/Islam suggestions
Misc. Religion Suggestions
Orthodoxy
I'd really like to see Orthodoxy for Russia, Ethiopia & Greece/Byzantium.
Opens a range of new gameplay options, which I'll mention later.
Speaking as one myself, having all Christianity represented by the Papal faith & its later reaction is one of the most glaring missing abscences of the mod.
It certainly has more overall historical prominence and especially gameplay reasons to include over Zorastrianism for example. Though only problem is I can't think of anyway to spawn it in Constantinople in the 3000 AD map except for scripting.
New Inquistor mechanics
Inquisitors can now operate in foreign cities, provided the other Civ is using certain civics, or has no state religion. Would make deciding whether to make open border agreements with certain Civs more interesting; as as it is now there's almost no reason not to have open borders whenever possible. Would also allow the Arabs to win a UHV victory without total world-conquest.
General Russian suggestions:
Other Misc
Sorry if all these suggestions make it sound like I hate the mod, because I really think its an big improvement on an already fantastic original mod. Its very impressive that you managed to make the Mughal, Indonesian & new Dutch civs work especially.
Thanks if you managed to read everything.
Only just got back to Civ after a long break, so I haven't played the latest version of the mod. I used to mod RAFC a lot, but I'm bad with computers and always ended up breaking the game after a few weeks of tinkering or after attempted any radical change.
Please give some detailed feedback, as it took me quite a lot of effort & time to write this, and I'd be very interested to any reasons to why you could/couldn't include them.
Arabs/Islam suggestions
Spoiler :
I don't know if this is possible, but this is an idea to go along with the feature of the Arabs removing other religions on conquest.
Would it be possible to remove Holy City's religions, but only on the condition that they were the last remaining City of that religion? For example, if the Arabs conquer all (formerly) Catholic Cities, only then would they be able to wipe the religion from Rome.
Instead of the tech UHV
- You could have "Make Islam as the world's sole religion", to force constant forceful Muslim expansion throughout the game, as in history.
Zorastrianism could be placed in an eastern Indian City to make it harder to wipe out.
It could also allow for a new Byzantine goal, to replace one of the duller ones: No Islamic Cities by [x date] It would then by an intense struggle for the human player to contain Islam before the Indonesian & Mali spawns.
-Arabia needs to be given a boost in general, it never even takes north Africa in my games. Probably good to stop the AI from founding so many rubbish cities in Yemen/Oman too.
-Caliphate of Arabia sounds very ugly, I don't see what's wrong with Ummayad/Abbasid instead. Also "The Arabs" sounds much nicer than "Arabia", which makes it sound like it's only referring to the Penisula.
-Have a Ka'aba wonder spawn on Mecca's founding for a big culture boost against the later Turkish spawn, and to represent that the city was major religious centre long before Muhammad. Also to make the Penisula slightly more viable in general.
Would it be possible to remove Holy City's religions, but only on the condition that they were the last remaining City of that religion? For example, if the Arabs conquer all (formerly) Catholic Cities, only then would they be able to wipe the religion from Rome.
Instead of the tech UHV
Spoiler :
(which I think is unhistorical, as almost all "Arab" science came almost entirely from Persians, Greeks & Jews)
Zorastrianism could be placed in an eastern Indian City to make it harder to wipe out.
It could also allow for a new Byzantine goal, to replace one of the duller ones: No Islamic Cities by [x date] It would then by an intense struggle for the human player to contain Islam before the Indonesian & Mali spawns.
-Arabia needs to be given a boost in general, it never even takes north Africa in my games. Probably good to stop the AI from founding so many rubbish cities in Yemen/Oman too.
-Caliphate of Arabia sounds very ugly, I don't see what's wrong with Ummayad/Abbasid instead. Also "The Arabs" sounds much nicer than "Arabia", which makes it sound like it's only referring to the Penisula.
-Have a Ka'aba wonder spawn on Mecca's founding for a big culture boost against the later Turkish spawn, and to represent that the city was major religious centre long before Muhammad. Also to make the Penisula slightly more viable in general.
Misc. Religion Suggestions
Spoiler :
Orthodoxy
I'd really like to see Orthodoxy for Russia, Ethiopia & Greece/Byzantium.
Opens a range of new gameplay options, which I'll mention later.
Speaking as one myself, having all Christianity represented by the Papal faith & its later reaction is one of the most glaring missing abscences of the mod.
It certainly has more overall historical prominence and especially gameplay reasons to include over Zorastrianism for example. Though only problem is I can't think of anyway to spawn it in Constantinople in the 3000 AD map except for scripting.
New Inquistor mechanics
Inquisitors can now operate in foreign cities, provided the other Civ is using certain civics, or has no state religion. Would make deciding whether to make open border agreements with certain Civs more interesting; as as it is now there's almost no reason not to have open borders whenever possible. Would also allow the Arabs to win a UHV victory without total world-conquest.
General Russian suggestions:
Spoiler :
- Change the Russian UHV to some sort of mechanic that gives them a massive espionage boost. Actually , giving the Russians the Byzantine UP & giving the Byzantines a UP identical to the Arab's, except relating to Orthodoxy.
The Byzantine-Arab wars would then take on an epic nature imo.
A script could also be added for in event of an early (and extremely unlikely) Byzantine victory over the Arabs, Orthodox events would in place of Islamic ones for the Turks & so on.
The Russians would then compensate for their low-tech & poor techtrading prospects by aquiring techs from the Europeans through spies. Which sort of happened in history with Peter the Great dressing up as a peasant & learning about shipbuilding in Holland.
The "General Winter" tech only makes sense for the Russian heartland, and passive UP's are boring anyway.
- Replace the "friendly Communist Civs" with "have the world's largest population by 1925" or an earlier goal with something to do with Orthodoxy or technology.
- Give Russian technology a nerf in early era's, then with a boosted rate after 1800 or so. Maybe improve the UB as well.
The Byzantine-Arab wars would then take on an epic nature imo.
A script could also be added for in event of an early (and extremely unlikely) Byzantine victory over the Arabs, Orthodox events would in place of Islamic ones for the Turks & so on.
The Russians would then compensate for their low-tech & poor techtrading prospects by aquiring techs from the Europeans through spies. Which sort of happened in history with Peter the Great dressing up as a peasant & learning about shipbuilding in Holland.
The "General Winter" tech only makes sense for the Russian heartland, and passive UP's are boring anyway.
- Replace the "friendly Communist Civs" with "have the world's largest population by 1925" or an earlier goal with something to do with Orthodoxy or technology.
- Give Russian technology a nerf in early era's, then with a boosted rate after 1800 or so. Maybe improve the UB as well.
Other Misc
Spoiler :
- Make it more easy to beeline in the earlier tech tree, and make much longer to reach any of the Industrial or Modern era's. I'm sick of seeing Civ's with Tank's & Airports who've skipped half the industrial techs.
- Include Willowmounds "Actual Quotes" mod. It's a tiny file, & suprisingly makes the game much more fun to play for such a seemingly small change. Goes with the historical theme too.
- Include the new version of the "Ethnically diverse Cities" mod. It's been out for a long time, and has added dozens and dozens of new artworks since Rhye first included it. (The Russian & Southern European artworks are especially good) If you can include new leaderheads you can definitely include this.
- Byzantium has no reason to spawn for the 3000 BC map, and Greece especially has no reason to spawn for the 600 AD map.
I don't see how the Byzantines were anything but a Christian continuation/revival of Greek civilisation. After all, they spoke Greek, were ethnically Greek, they were referred to as Greeks by their contemporaries, and Greece today considers the Byzantines as their own.
If Greece spawns on the 600 AD map, that basically leaves any surviving Byzantine Civ as city-state squashed between the Turks, Russians & Greeks. It also makes playing Byzantium literally impossible after the 1500's for a human player.
As for the 3000 AD map, either the Greeks have a scripted respawn if the Romans become unstable after conquering them and remove the Byzantines. Otherwise, the Byzantines only spawn if the Greeks are dead, and the Greeks only re-spawn if the Byzantines are dead. Does this make sense?
- Make the British Empire continental city goal a later date with more cities. Would makes it less of settler-spam rush & it would require more planning and strategy to have more cities later. Plus the British Empire had barely started by 1730.
- More numerous & earlier caucasian cities (for Armenia & Georgia) with an improvement of those tiles, probably making them grassland & a fish resource in the black or caspian sea. Maybe spawn a Muslim-Chechen with added raiding units city late in the game to give Russia a headache.
- Have the Mongol UB give a free "Morale" promotion to all units, so that conquest doesn't slow turn into a slog across asia for the human player, as well as helping out the AI.
- Have some strong independent cities representing Finland/Estonia/Lithunia to stop Vikings from settling Russia/Central-Asia so often (at least the last time I played this happened at least half my games). Though this might make them even more inland orientated, I'm not sure.
- Have all 3 Christian Holy Cities in Jerusalem, which could make an late-spawning Israel city-state civ viable. Would also give Arabia much need boosting, for both human & AI. Arabia has gone from easily the strongest Civ to play in Vanilla RAFC (the AI was just awful), to one of the hardest. Their AI is still a joke.
-Hardcode the Seljuks to attack Westwards, or have them spawn neutral to the Arabs, I don't know.
- Make Tibet much better defended.
- Oromo raiders for later centuries when Impi's become a joke & Bedouins become a minor annoyance. Have Numidian cavalry raiders instead of Bedouins in the earlier ages so keeping Carthage isn't impossible.
- Code the Greeks to attack Eastward, (or at least not the Ukraine) to soften up for the Arabs later.
- Ethnically diverse units mod. Would be practically the only reason I would want to play Ethiopia tbh. Ethiopia's colour is almost impossible to distinguish from Egypt on the map btw. Also Indonesia & Inca are nearly identical on minimap.
- I remember someone mentioned they scripted the game as to make dead civilisations names dissapear from the diplomacy list, it would be a no-brainer to add-in, as having a long list of moribund Civs clogging up the screen doesn't really add anything. Often it takes up half the screen, it might be a good idea to keep the short names for the screen
- Include Willowmounds "Actual Quotes" mod. It's a tiny file, & suprisingly makes the game much more fun to play for such a seemingly small change. Goes with the historical theme too.
- Include the new version of the "Ethnically diverse Cities" mod. It's been out for a long time, and has added dozens and dozens of new artworks since Rhye first included it. (The Russian & Southern European artworks are especially good) If you can include new leaderheads you can definitely include this.
- Byzantium has no reason to spawn for the 3000 BC map, and Greece especially has no reason to spawn for the 600 AD map.
I don't see how the Byzantines were anything but a Christian continuation/revival of Greek civilisation. After all, they spoke Greek, were ethnically Greek, they were referred to as Greeks by their contemporaries, and Greece today considers the Byzantines as their own.
If Greece spawns on the 600 AD map, that basically leaves any surviving Byzantine Civ as city-state squashed between the Turks, Russians & Greeks. It also makes playing Byzantium literally impossible after the 1500's for a human player.
As for the 3000 AD map, either the Greeks have a scripted respawn if the Romans become unstable after conquering them and remove the Byzantines. Otherwise, the Byzantines only spawn if the Greeks are dead, and the Greeks only re-spawn if the Byzantines are dead. Does this make sense?
- Make the British Empire continental city goal a later date with more cities. Would makes it less of settler-spam rush & it would require more planning and strategy to have more cities later. Plus the British Empire had barely started by 1730.
- More numerous & earlier caucasian cities (for Armenia & Georgia) with an improvement of those tiles, probably making them grassland & a fish resource in the black or caspian sea. Maybe spawn a Muslim-Chechen with added raiding units city late in the game to give Russia a headache.
- Have the Mongol UB give a free "Morale" promotion to all units, so that conquest doesn't slow turn into a slog across asia for the human player, as well as helping out the AI.
- Have some strong independent cities representing Finland/Estonia/Lithunia to stop Vikings from settling Russia/Central-Asia so often (at least the last time I played this happened at least half my games). Though this might make them even more inland orientated, I'm not sure.
- Have all 3 Christian Holy Cities in Jerusalem, which could make an late-spawning Israel city-state civ viable. Would also give Arabia much need boosting, for both human & AI. Arabia has gone from easily the strongest Civ to play in Vanilla RAFC (the AI was just awful), to one of the hardest. Their AI is still a joke.
-Hardcode the Seljuks to attack Westwards, or have them spawn neutral to the Arabs, I don't know.
- Make Tibet much better defended.
- Oromo raiders for later centuries when Impi's become a joke & Bedouins become a minor annoyance. Have Numidian cavalry raiders instead of Bedouins in the earlier ages so keeping Carthage isn't impossible.
- Code the Greeks to attack Eastward, (or at least not the Ukraine) to soften up for the Arabs later.
- Ethnically diverse units mod. Would be practically the only reason I would want to play Ethiopia tbh. Ethiopia's colour is almost impossible to distinguish from Egypt on the map btw. Also Indonesia & Inca are nearly identical on minimap.
- I remember someone mentioned they scripted the game as to make dead civilisations names dissapear from the diplomacy list, it would be a no-brainer to add-in, as having a long list of moribund Civs clogging up the screen doesn't really add anything. Often it takes up half the screen, it might be a good idea to keep the short names for the screen
Sorry if all these suggestions make it sound like I hate the mod, because I really think its an big improvement on an already fantastic original mod. Its very impressive that you managed to make the Mughal, Indonesian & new Dutch civs work especially.
Thanks if you managed to read everything.