Hi.
I've got a BIG question...
I know it wasn't invented by RiFE... but RiFE uses it...
How does the master craftsman system works ?
to have the something forge, you need a master smith... but this smith appears only once you've got one of the something forge...
it seems that a GEngineer can build the something forge.. or the fletcher equivalent.
Is it the only means to get those ?
if it is ... how can you get an early GE ? GE gpp are few in FFH...
-the first one is the Forge of Kilmorphe, whatchamacalit...
-then : forge... a long way into the metal line.
so the question is : how can you get the necessary GE for a master fletcher or a master scout, without dwellving into metal ? (I can't remember those names as I never even got one mastercraftsman...)
Same way : how do the guilds work ?
you can spread the agricultural guild with a farmer... ok, but how do you get the first farmer ?
Sorry for those noob questions, But I knew how to play FFH or WM even if I'm no master, but just recently went to RiFE, I love it, but many new tools are not explained, or only in FF, but it's not always the same effects.
thanks beforehand,
Cala
EDIT : Answers from Valkrionn and VSPavlov :
Guidlines to Mastercraftsmen
Guidlines to Guilds [To be Completed...]
I've got a BIG question...
I know it wasn't invented by RiFE... but RiFE uses it...
How does the master craftsman system works ?
to have the something forge, you need a master smith... but this smith appears only once you've got one of the something forge...
it seems that a GEngineer can build the something forge.. or the fletcher equivalent.
Is it the only means to get those ?
if it is ... how can you get an early GE ? GE gpp are few in FFH...
-the first one is the Forge of Kilmorphe, whatchamacalit...
-then : forge... a long way into the metal line.
so the question is : how can you get the necessary GE for a master fletcher or a master scout, without dwellving into metal ? (I can't remember those names as I never even got one mastercraftsman...)
Same way : how do the guilds work ?
you can spread the agricultural guild with a farmer... ok, but how do you get the first farmer ?
Sorry for those noob questions, But I knew how to play FFH or WM even if I'm no master, but just recently went to RiFE, I love it, but many new tools are not explained, or only in FF, but it's not always the same effects.
thanks beforehand,
Cala
EDIT : Answers from Valkrionn and VSPavlov :
Spoiler Answers from the masters :
Yes, you can only get the Mastery buildings in the first place via a Great Engineer. Once one has been built, you can build them normally.
There is a new building at Construction, the Artisan's Workshop, which allows an early GE specialist.
Guilds are also founded by great people, though the type varies.
Once they've been founded (and Masquerade is automatically placed in Balseraph cities), you can build units able to spread it.
Any GP can spread the guild when you meet the requirements, whether it's been founded or not....
There is a new building at Construction, the Artisan's Workshop, which allows an early GE specialist.
Guilds are also founded by great people, though the type varies.
Once they've been founded (and Masquerade is automatically placed in Balseraph cities), you can build units able to spread it.
Any GP can spread the guild when you meet the requirements, whether it's been founded or not....
Spoiler The Mastercraftsmen, their wares and their effects, by Cala :
Mastercraftsmen
Abbreviations in use :
CityBomb : City Defense Bombardment ; Col Nb : Number of Collateral targets ; FS : first strike ; FSchance : First Strike Chance ;
Max Col Dmg : Max Collateral Damage ; Max RDmg lim : Max Ranged damage limit ; mvt : movement point ; OpR : operational range ; Ranged str : Ranged Combat Strength ; Str : strength ; Wd : Withdrawal chance ;
Metal related : removed when changing metal weapon, but can be bought again with new metal weapon.
BEWARE : There may be some errors, and I forgot to check all requirements/Tech/costs... when the information is missing, it will be in italics...
Master Smith : for Melee units
Pikes (55gold, DURAL) : Metal Related, +40%vs Mounted .
Barbed Weapons (cost?, CLAN OF EMBERS/ SVARTALFAR) : Metal Related, +1 Att str.
Heavy plate (40gold, “Plate”, KHAZAD, Smelting Tech) : Metal related, +1 Def str.
Heavy Formation (cost ?, tech ?, UNIT related, SCIONs) : -1gold maintenance per turn, +1 mvt cost, +30%str.
Elite Formation (120gold, “Heavy Formation” ==> SCIONs): Metal Related, +1 Att str, +1 Def str.
Sword of Klarkash (100gold, evil temples, EILODON): affinity +1 with Entropy Mana, +3%chance gives “fumes of the pit” (bad promotion).
Seals of Purity (60gold, good temples, PALADIN, Tech) +50% resistance Unholy damage, +15%spell resistance, +25%str vs Demons.
Mutually exclusive wares :
Blessed Armor (35gold, blocks cursed weapons): Heal +25% in friendly land, +20%in neutral hostile land, +20% spell resistance.
Cursed weapons (45gold, blocks blessed armor) : ????
Wares replaced by better ones, linked to the metal weapons :
Plate (85gold, Smelting Tech) : +1 Att str, +1 Def str. /lost each time you change of metal weapons.
High Quality weapons (15gold): +20%str /lost with “copper/iron/mithril weapons”.
High Quality Bronze (65gold, “Bronze weapons” : +20%str /lost with “iron/mithril weapons”.
High Quality Steel (85 gold, “Iron weapons” : +20%str /lost with “mithril weapons”.
Masterwork Weaponry (200gold, “Mithril weapons” : +20%str.
Master Rancher : for Mounted units
Cataphract armor (100gold, Hippodrome, Warhorses Tech) : -10%Wd, +1 Att str, +2 Def str.
Mutually exclusive wares:
Blessed Armor (45gold, GOOD, Tech? ) -5%Wd, +1 Def str, +10% spell resistance.
Cursed Lances (100gold?, EVIL, Tech? ) -15%Wd, +1 Att str, -1 Def str.
Sacred Horses (35gold, NEUTRAL, Tech? ) +10%Wd, +15% spell resistance.
Wares replaced by better ones :
-Tack replaced by better ones :
Superior Tack (20gold): +5%Wd.
Excellent Tack (40gold, Tech? ): +10%Wd.
Horselord Tack (60gold, Tech?, HIPPUS only? : +15%Wd.
-Horses replaced by better ones :
Superior Horses (50gold) : +10%Wd.
Fast Horses (80gold, Tech? ) : +1mvt /replacing or replaced by “Superior horses” ?.
Battle Mount (100gold, Warhorses Tech) : +1 mvt, +10%Wd.
(Some may be exclusives with “sacred horses”, or not…
Master Fletcher : for Ranged units
High Quality Bronze (35gold, “bronze weapons”, Tech? ) : +20%str /lost with “iron weapons”.
High Quality Steel (45 gold, “iron weapons”, Tech? ) : +30%str /lost with “mithril weapons”.
Bloodglass (70gold, +Mithril Working Tech) : +1 Att str, +1 Def str . (NEEDS MITHRIL WEAPONS ?)
Mutually exclusive wares? :
Fine bows (15gold) : Metal related, +1 Def str.
Composite Bow (35gold, deer or artic deer, Bowyers Tech) : Max RDmg lim +10, +1FSChance.
Compond Bow (50gold, Engineering, LJOSALFAR) +20%Str /exclusive vs “composite bow” ?.
Master Outfitter : for Recon units
Clan Warpaints (25gold, CLAN of EMBERS) : +10%jungle Att/Def.
Scourge (10gold, MECHANOS, Way Of The Wicked Tech) : +40% vs Disciples.
Windstones (50gold, AUSTRIN) : Ranged str +2, Max Rdmg +15, OpR +1.
Gears : How to blend in the wilderness : Cumulative :
Climbing kit (25gold) : +10% Hills Att/Def.
Desert gear (25gold) : +10% Desert Att/Def.
Snow gear (25gold) : +10% Tundra Att/Def, +10% Ice Att/Def.
Ice gear (25gold, ILLIANS) : +20% Tundra Att/Def, +20% Ice Att/Def /replaces “Snow gear”.
Woods gear (25gold) : +10% Jungle Att/Def, +10%Forest Att/Def, +10%Ancient Forest Att/Def.
Night gear (50gold, ESUS unit promotion or Civ State Religion ?) +15%Wd.
Shadow gear (60gold, Tech?) : Gives “Hidden” when lost, Lost after combat ==> ie. Gives Hidden After Combat .
traps : How to ensnare the attacking enemy : Replaced by better ?
Caltrops (10gold, DURAL) : +5%vs Mounted.
Mantraps (45gold) : +10%chance giving 10%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
Deadly traps (75gold) : +15%chance giving 15%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
Poisoned traps (40gold, CUALLI/SVARTALFAR) : +20%chance giving 20%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
Nightshade (50gold, ESUS unit promotion or Civ State Religion ?, Deception Tech) : +25%chance giving 25%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
Wares replaced by better ones:
Fine kit (cost?) : +10%str.
Superior kit (30gold, Tracking Tech): +20%str.
Excellent kit (65gold, Commune With Nature Tech) : +30%str.
Master Siegesmith : for Siege units
Artillery (cost?, KHAZAD, Tech?) : +1 OpR.
Double-time (40gold, KHAZAD/MECANOS/AUSTRIN/HIPPUS, Horseback Riding Tech) : +1mvt, -10%str.
Improved Accuracy (80gold, Tech?) : Ranged str +1, Max Rdmg lim +10.
Improved Machinery (50gold, TREBUCHET, Tech?) : +1 OpR.
Point Defense (40gold, KHAZAD/JOTNAR/MECHANOS, Tech?) : +25%Hill Def.
Pontoons (40gold, Tech?) : double mvt in marsh terrain
Resident Machine Spirit (200gold, MECHANOS) : 20%chance/turn to give “Machine Spirit”.
Well Trained (100gold, Tech?) : “Blitz” for Siege units
Wares replaced by better ones :
Fine Craftsmanship (30gold) : +1FSChance, +10% str
Excellent Craftsmanship (40gold, Tech?) : +1FS, +20%City Attack
Superior Craftsmanship (80gold, Tech?) : +1FS, +1FSChance, +30%str, +20%City Attack
Artisan Craftsmanship (120gold, KHAZAD/LUIRCHIPS/Another one?) : +2FS, +1FSChance, +40%str, +30%City Attack
Shots : How to make a better weapon : Mutually Exclusives :
Grapeshot (60gold, Tech?) : Col Nb +2, OpR -1, CityBomb -50%, -25%City Attack, +15%vs Mounted, +15%vs Melee.
Canister Shot (cost?, Tech?) : Col Nb +2, Max Col Dmg +40%, +25%vs Mounted, +25%vs Melee, +1Att str.
Flaming Shot (cost? , Smelting Tech) : CityBomb +5%, +50%Forest Att, +50%New Forest Att, +50%Ancient Forest Att, +50%vs Naval units, +1Fire combat.
Explosive Shot (cost?, Tech?) : Ranged str +1, Max RDmg lim +5%, CityBomb +15%, +25%City Attack, +2 Att str.
Sighted shot (150gold) : OpR +1, -25%str.
Plague Infested Shot (30gold, EVIL, JOTNAR/SHEAIM/INFERNALS/BALSERAPHS/D’TESH, Tech?) : Max RDmg lim +10, Col Nb +10??, spread “diseased”, other effect???.
Abbreviations in use :
CityBomb : City Defense Bombardment ; Col Nb : Number of Collateral targets ; FS : first strike ; FSchance : First Strike Chance ;
Max Col Dmg : Max Collateral Damage ; Max RDmg lim : Max Ranged damage limit ; mvt : movement point ; OpR : operational range ; Ranged str : Ranged Combat Strength ; Str : strength ; Wd : Withdrawal chance ;
Metal related : removed when changing metal weapon, but can be bought again with new metal weapon.
BEWARE : There may be some errors, and I forgot to check all requirements/Tech/costs... when the information is missing, it will be in italics...
Master Smith : for Melee units
Pikes (55gold, DURAL) : Metal Related, +40%vs Mounted .
Barbed Weapons (cost?, CLAN OF EMBERS/ SVARTALFAR) : Metal Related, +1 Att str.
Heavy plate (40gold, “Plate”, KHAZAD, Smelting Tech) : Metal related, +1 Def str.
Heavy Formation (cost ?, tech ?, UNIT related, SCIONs) : -1gold maintenance per turn, +1 mvt cost, +30%str.
Elite Formation (120gold, “Heavy Formation” ==> SCIONs): Metal Related, +1 Att str, +1 Def str.
Sword of Klarkash (100gold, evil temples, EILODON): affinity +1 with Entropy Mana, +3%chance gives “fumes of the pit” (bad promotion).
Seals of Purity (60gold, good temples, PALADIN, Tech) +50% resistance Unholy damage, +15%spell resistance, +25%str vs Demons.
Mutually exclusive wares :
Blessed Armor (35gold, blocks cursed weapons): Heal +25% in friendly land, +20%in neutral hostile land, +20% spell resistance.
Cursed weapons (45gold, blocks blessed armor) : ????
Wares replaced by better ones, linked to the metal weapons :
Plate (85gold, Smelting Tech) : +1 Att str, +1 Def str. /lost each time you change of metal weapons.
High Quality weapons (15gold): +20%str /lost with “copper/iron/mithril weapons”.
High Quality Bronze (65gold, “Bronze weapons” : +20%str /lost with “iron/mithril weapons”.
High Quality Steel (85 gold, “Iron weapons” : +20%str /lost with “mithril weapons”.
Masterwork Weaponry (200gold, “Mithril weapons” : +20%str.
Master Rancher : for Mounted units
Cataphract armor (100gold, Hippodrome, Warhorses Tech) : -10%Wd, +1 Att str, +2 Def str.
Mutually exclusive wares:
Blessed Armor (45gold, GOOD, Tech? ) -5%Wd, +1 Def str, +10% spell resistance.
Cursed Lances (100gold?, EVIL, Tech? ) -15%Wd, +1 Att str, -1 Def str.
Sacred Horses (35gold, NEUTRAL, Tech? ) +10%Wd, +15% spell resistance.
Wares replaced by better ones :
-Tack replaced by better ones :
Superior Tack (20gold): +5%Wd.
Excellent Tack (40gold, Tech? ): +10%Wd.
Horselord Tack (60gold, Tech?, HIPPUS only? : +15%Wd.
-Horses replaced by better ones :
Superior Horses (50gold) : +10%Wd.
Fast Horses (80gold, Tech? ) : +1mvt /replacing or replaced by “Superior horses” ?.
Battle Mount (100gold, Warhorses Tech) : +1 mvt, +10%Wd.
(Some may be exclusives with “sacred horses”, or not…
Master Fletcher : for Ranged units
High Quality Bronze (35gold, “bronze weapons”, Tech? ) : +20%str /lost with “iron weapons”.
High Quality Steel (45 gold, “iron weapons”, Tech? ) : +30%str /lost with “mithril weapons”.
Bloodglass (70gold, +Mithril Working Tech) : +1 Att str, +1 Def str . (NEEDS MITHRIL WEAPONS ?)
Mutually exclusive wares? :
Fine bows (15gold) : Metal related, +1 Def str.
Composite Bow (35gold, deer or artic deer, Bowyers Tech) : Max RDmg lim +10, +1FSChance.
Compond Bow (50gold, Engineering, LJOSALFAR) +20%Str /exclusive vs “composite bow” ?.
Master Outfitter : for Recon units
Clan Warpaints (25gold, CLAN of EMBERS) : +10%jungle Att/Def.
Scourge (10gold, MECHANOS, Way Of The Wicked Tech) : +40% vs Disciples.
Windstones (50gold, AUSTRIN) : Ranged str +2, Max Rdmg +15, OpR +1.
Gears : How to blend in the wilderness : Cumulative :
Climbing kit (25gold) : +10% Hills Att/Def.
Desert gear (25gold) : +10% Desert Att/Def.
Snow gear (25gold) : +10% Tundra Att/Def, +10% Ice Att/Def.
Ice gear (25gold, ILLIANS) : +20% Tundra Att/Def, +20% Ice Att/Def /replaces “Snow gear”.
Woods gear (25gold) : +10% Jungle Att/Def, +10%Forest Att/Def, +10%Ancient Forest Att/Def.
Night gear (50gold, ESUS unit promotion or Civ State Religion ?) +15%Wd.
Shadow gear (60gold, Tech?) : Gives “Hidden” when lost, Lost after combat ==> ie. Gives Hidden After Combat .
traps : How to ensnare the attacking enemy : Replaced by better ?
Caltrops (10gold, DURAL) : +5%vs Mounted.
Mantraps (45gold) : +10%chance giving 10%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
Deadly traps (75gold) : +15%chance giving 15%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
Poisoned traps (40gold, CUALLI/SVARTALFAR) : +20%chance giving 20%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
Nightshade (50gold, ESUS unit promotion or Civ State Religion ?, Deception Tech) : +25%chance giving 25%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
Wares replaced by better ones:
Fine kit (cost?) : +10%str.
Superior kit (30gold, Tracking Tech): +20%str.
Excellent kit (65gold, Commune With Nature Tech) : +30%str.
Master Siegesmith : for Siege units
Artillery (cost?, KHAZAD, Tech?) : +1 OpR.
Double-time (40gold, KHAZAD/MECANOS/AUSTRIN/HIPPUS, Horseback Riding Tech) : +1mvt, -10%str.
Improved Accuracy (80gold, Tech?) : Ranged str +1, Max Rdmg lim +10.
Improved Machinery (50gold, TREBUCHET, Tech?) : +1 OpR.
Point Defense (40gold, KHAZAD/JOTNAR/MECHANOS, Tech?) : +25%Hill Def.
Pontoons (40gold, Tech?) : double mvt in marsh terrain
Resident Machine Spirit (200gold, MECHANOS) : 20%chance/turn to give “Machine Spirit”.
Well Trained (100gold, Tech?) : “Blitz” for Siege units
Wares replaced by better ones :
Fine Craftsmanship (30gold) : +1FSChance, +10% str
Excellent Craftsmanship (40gold, Tech?) : +1FS, +20%City Attack
Superior Craftsmanship (80gold, Tech?) : +1FS, +1FSChance, +30%str, +20%City Attack
Artisan Craftsmanship (120gold, KHAZAD/LUIRCHIPS/Another one?) : +2FS, +1FSChance, +40%str, +30%City Attack
Shots : How to make a better weapon : Mutually Exclusives :
Grapeshot (60gold, Tech?) : Col Nb +2, OpR -1, CityBomb -50%, -25%City Attack, +15%vs Mounted, +15%vs Melee.
Canister Shot (cost?, Tech?) : Col Nb +2, Max Col Dmg +40%, +25%vs Mounted, +25%vs Melee, +1Att str.
Flaming Shot (cost? , Smelting Tech) : CityBomb +5%, +50%Forest Att, +50%New Forest Att, +50%Ancient Forest Att, +50%vs Naval units, +1Fire combat.
Explosive Shot (cost?, Tech?) : Ranged str +1, Max RDmg lim +5%, CityBomb +15%, +25%City Attack, +2 Att str.
Sighted shot (150gold) : OpR +1, -25%str.
Plague Infested Shot (30gold, EVIL, JOTNAR/SHEAIM/INFERNALS/BALSERAPHS/D’TESH, Tech?) : Max RDmg lim +10, Col Nb +10??, spread “diseased”, other effect???.
Spoiler Observed randomness :
It seems some appellations are random :
Siegsmith (craftsmanship) fine<excellent<Superior
Whereas other parts : superior is not THE superior promotion :
Outfitter (kit) fine<superior<excellent /
Rancher (horse) superior<fast / (Tack) superior<excellent (no Fine Tack ?)
Blessed/cursed is linked to alignement for Master Rancher and Neutral is “sacred”
Blessed/cursed linked to temple for Master Smith, aka good/evil but no alignement, no Neutral effect for the Master Smith.
Eilodon’s special weapon is more costly but more powerful than the Paladins’ counterpart.
Siegsmith (craftsmanship) fine<excellent<Superior
Whereas other parts : superior is not THE superior promotion :
Outfitter (kit) fine<superior<excellent /
Rancher (horse) superior<fast / (Tack) superior<excellent (no Fine Tack ?)
Blessed/cursed is linked to alignement for Master Rancher and Neutral is “sacred”
Blessed/cursed linked to temple for Master Smith, aka good/evil but no alignement, no Neutral effect for the Master Smith.
Eilodon’s special weapon is more costly but more powerful than the Paladins’ counterpart.
Spoiler The Guilds, The Great Founders, The Ressources Used, The Civ Bonus and The Founders' Bonus :
Fabricaforma - Bard, Merchant
Masquerade - Bard
Stonefire - Engineer
Fisher - Merchant
Farmer - Merchant
Masquerade - Bard
Stonefire - Engineer
Fisher - Merchant
Farmer - Merchant