Master of Mana Xtended 5.0

[Calavente]

I agree.
remember that in vanilla, spell damages need mages ...
Conversly, here, adepts can easily target 5-20% (or more if they attack together) of huge monsters and tier 4 units, and this with spells in the first 1/4 of the spell tree. (or even without spell research !!)... and sometimes you don't even need to tech arcane techs... as adepts are given for free when spellresearch is discovered !!

not even talking of 30%, but only 10% damage is huge when done on a 15str unit !
even a unit with 13str, for which you need more tech than getting adepts with fireballs, wouldn't give so much damage to a fortified, in city, 15str unit.

I don't know how to solve that.

 

[esvath]

I added spell resistance check to Charm, so now Charm has chance to fail. So does Lightning's stunned or Ice's slow etc. Basically, any secondary effect has the chance to fail in lower tier spells.

Fireball might seem powerful but fire is also the most commonly resisted element. Lots of races have fire resistance or even immunity. Lots of auras and gears provide fire resistance. So, that should make up for Fireball's multiple target.

 

[Jojo_Fr]

I think a bug topic on 5.1 version is needed.

I met a bug I guess : it's no more possible to settle a city and a plain hill. Grassland hill is ok but not plain. ^^

 

[esvath]

I think a bug topic on 5.1 version is needed.

I met a bug I guess : it's no more possible to settle a city and a plain hill. Grassland hill is ok but not plain. ^^

You can post bugs here or in the download thread.

What you have experienced is not a bug. It's a feature/working as intended by Sephi iirc. You need at least one food in the tile to settle city there. I forgot what the reason for this change was.

 

[Jojo_Fr]

Oh ok. I never noticed it.
I don't agree with this choice, but ok.

 

[Ogi123]

I don't even remember why. Unfortunately I think it is hardcoded in DLL. I tried to find the code in xml/python but couldn't find any.

It is? Huh, in 4.1 I was able to settle on hill/plains and deserts.

 

[esvath]

It is? Huh, in 4.1 I was able to settle on hill/plains and deserts.

Oh really? Maybe I tinkered with Plains' yield? Or maybe the restriction was introduced by CarnivalBizarre instead of Sephi? I forgot which one is which.

 

[Icezera]

Will people stop using the most outlandish examples for adepts taking on tier 4 units? You are literally representing the best/worst case scenarios and acting as if the sky is falling. Adepts don't do horsehocky in the early game so nerfing magic overall will make them useless when they are most needed to make up for some distant case in the future 400 turns later. Esvath has already implemented spell resistance into promotions that will help resist spell damage later in the game.

 

[esvath]

Esvath has already implemented spell resistance into promotions that will help resist spell damage later in the game.

Yes, and magic or elemental resistance does reduce damage from spells considerably. For example, a Goblin will suffer 14% fire damage from Fireball while an Orc will suffer 6% only. That shows how powerful magic or elemental resistance is.

 

[Psychodad]

Will people stop using the most outlandish examples for adepts taking on tier 4 units? You are literally representing the best/worst case scenarios and acting as if the sky is falling. Adepts don't do horsehocky in the early game so nerfing magic overall will make them useless when they are most needed to make up for some distant case in the future 400 turns later. Esvath has already implemented spell resistance into promotions that will help resist spell damage later in the game.

Calm down Fellow. No one talks about outlandish examples, but game experience. And yes in turn 400 adepts should be next to useless like any other tier one unit (except for the most valued veterans maybe). We will see how good the magic resistans works out against bombarding stacks with AoE.

 

[Psychodad]

About Dural:

Since priest chapter does not spawn aditional Religions its pretty useless for Dural because they cannot build priests and high priests. But the the guild contains unique Buldings and the Professor Unit.

Suggestion:
1. Make Dural spread ALL religions in their capital at researching Priest Chapter (or one at each guildtech), but make them Agnostic (fits their lore as educated researchers).
2. Maybe give each city 1 breaker per religion.
3. If the player goes deeper in the Guild tree (maybe Priesthood), make students of the different religions available to spread them.
4. Dogma makes Professor available, Religios Law makes College of Theology und the schools of the different religions available (like it is atm).
5. Maybe let the Professor do sth cool with faith (inspire units/city etc).

Alternativ: Make them Agnostic, cut all religios buildings and Units for them, move Professor and Statue of Hope to another Tech/Guild

 

[Aiblis]

Hi,
I found 2 "Bugs":
If two or more player are in one Team and one of the Players plays the Malakim, both player cant build roads. The not Malakim player cant build roads too, which is extremly bad for him.
Second: If you choose Kane with his Desert Economy Trait and from the Religion Ashen Veil the Sacrifice of the Weak civic, then you need 0 food per population. DOnt know if that is wantet. If you then have water Mana with the spell without angry citizen in your city, your cities will get rly rly big.^^

greetings from germany
Drackzahn/Aiblis

 

[esvath]

About Dural:

Since priest chapter does not spawn aditional Religions its pretty useless for Dural because they cannot build priests and high priests. But the the guild contains unique Buldings and the Professor Unit.

Suggestion:
1. Make Dural spread ALL religions in their capital at researching Priest Chapter (or one at each guildtech), but make them Agnostic (fits their lore as educated researchers).
2. Maybe give each city 1 breaker per religion.
3. If the player goes deeper in the Guild tree (maybe Priesthood), make students of the different religions available to spread them.
4. Dogma makes Professor available, Religios Law makes College of Theology und the schools of the different religions available (like it is atm).
5. Maybe let the Professor do sth cool with faith (inspire units/city etc).

Alternativ: Make them Agnostic, cut all religios buildings and Units for them, move Professor and Statue of Hope to another Tech/Guild

Nice idea!
I'd like to make it like this:

- [DURAL] Theme: scholars, agnostics, builder.
- [DURAL] Added Archer to Dural.
- [DURAL] City screen is no longer pink.
- [DURAL] Dural gains Agnostic civ trait.
- [DURAL] Dural automatically gets all religions' first tier tech upon obtaining Priest Chapter.
- [DURAL] College of Theology is unlocked at Priest Chapter.
- [DURAL] Various religious schools are unlocked at Priesthood, except Esus' unlocked at Cult of Esus.
- [DURAL] Professor requires College of Theology and Dogma.

Further discussion in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/xtended-new-civs-re-design.599256/

 

[Linvega]

Three bugs I found:
1. Infinite ogres is still a thing.(don't know whether it was supposed to get fixed, but just wanted to mention it)
2. Summons sometimes don't turn up. It seems to happen for some reason when the turn is otherwise over, it never happened to me when I did it right at the start of a turn.
3. Either the civpedia is wrong, or I misunderstood something, or the summoner trait doesn't work the way it should. War bears cost 5 mana upkeep, how much do I pay with summoner ? 6!

 

[Icezera]

I'm getting constant crashes at 100 Armageddon.

 

[Jojo_Fr]

I guess the Svartalfar research bonus on unimproved forest does not work. I don't see it in the research (magical research) output.

 

[Calavente]

Will people stop using the most outlandish examples for adepts taking on tier 4 units? You are literally representing the best/worst case scenarios and acting as if the sky is falling. Adepts don't do horsehocky in the early game so nerfing magic overall will make them useless when they are most needed to make up for some distant case in the future 400 turns later. Esvath has already implemented spell resistance into promotions that will help resist spell damage later in the game.

it's not a "most outlandish example".
I rarely upgrade my adepts into mages... or only to make a few small-sized gains.
I haven't yet played with the resistance update but IIRC barbs will never have resistance.

I've killed Gurid (22something str) with clearly unadapted units, without risk, by having 3 adepts bombard him with lighnting sparks for a few turns until he came into range of my hunterwannabee (which had 0% chances of winning at first, and then went to 95% chances).

in the same way, I softened all OGRE (or Cyclops?) settlements (22str fyi) with 2-3 adepts, then "attack" with 15str units (9+6)... and it becomes really easy.

I'd rather have the spells available to adepts be softer (increase str /defense / launch poison weakness ...etc / small stun / small blind / small unfortify / charm ...etc ), and needing mages to do real damage.

or that the adepts level spells are limited to 10-20% maximum damage ?? (depending on the spell school)

 

[Icezera]

And 22 str is nothing in mid-late game which is when ogres/giants upgrade from 15 str to 22. Your tier 1 units will have 20 or so strength simply from upgrading techs.

And of course that's what you're supposed to do. Or do you just sacrifice your units to die to the barbarians until they get weak enough to be killed? Woo, great alternative strategy. Stockpiling hammers OP. Or perhaps stack units in defensive tiles and hope the ai is dumb enough to ram its units into a fortified stack over and over again?

If you want vanilla ffh magic system, play that. MoM from its first incarnation had damage spells everywhere.

 

[esvath]

I guess the Svartalfar research bonus on unimproved forest does not work. I don't see it in the research (magical research) output.

It's working. Check on the city screen's spell research income, you will see +From Features or something like that. One AF will give +0.25 IIRC.

1. Infinite ogres is still a thing

It's in DLL, we have to wait for CarnivalBizarre (who is quite busy IRL) or others who can mod DLL.

2. Summons sometimes don't turn up. It seems to happen for some reason when the turn is otherwise over, it never happened to me when I did it right at the start of a turn.

I am asking the obvious here: did you have the necessary mana? Maybe the summon is postponed for a few turns to get enough mana?

3. Either the civpedia is wrong, or I misunderstood something, or the summoner trait doesn't work the way it should. War bears cost 5 mana upkeep, how much do I pay with summoner ? 6!

That is weird. Last time I check, Summoner works just fine. I'll check this.

I'm getting constant crashes at 100 Armageddon.

The world is destroyed?
Do you have Sheaim casting World Break? That is one of the known cause for CTDs.

Re: Magic
Bombarding enemies with magic to soften them is the best strategy, especially against stronger enemies. I don't see any problem with that.

But not upgrading Adepts to Mages is problematic.

Maybe the problem is not with Adepts but with Mages? They come way too late. Compared to the spell research, I always get the tier 2 spells way before Sorcery, and that makes the tier 2 spells unusable.

I think I will reduce beaker costs for the magic tech so that we can research Sorcery faster.

Have anyone played heavy magic civ with 5.1? What do you think about the abundance of magic resistance?

 

[Calavente]

And 22 str is nothing in mid-late game which is when ogres/giants upgrade from 15 str to 22. Your tier 1 units will have 20 or so strength simply from upgrading techs.

And of course that's what you're supposed to do. Or do you just sacrifice your units to die to the barbarians until they get weak enough to be killed? Woo, great alternative strategy. Stockpiling hammers OP. Or perhaps stack units in defensive tiles and hope the ai is dumb enough to ram its units into a fortified stack over and over again?

If you want vanilla ffh magic system, play that. MoM from its first incarnation had damage spells everywhere.

of course abusing the too easy aspects of the game is normal... but it's still too easy and too powerful: no need to soften with high withdrawal units or with catapults : none are needed, free adepts, using the 3 first spell techs can replace all those.

and of course, softening the ennemy with spells has always been a good strategy for FFH... but here... it's too strong, and too early... (for me, adepts are too strong). In vanilla FFH, mages (and thus spell damage) were mid game... unless you were magic heavy.
here, spell damage (without risk) are early game.

str 15 units, with free gained adepts shouldn't be able to tackle easily, without loss str 22 units.
for late game, you should find that the only gain of mage vs adepts is to spend less mana and spend less unit slots for same results.

and late game, your 20str unit can easily tackle str 30 units... (your enemy should also have had +2 str techs).. by ONLY USING ADEPTS, without loss in your team !

for me, gianing mages should allow results that were non attainable with adepts only.. which is not really the case atm.

using mages is only to get more powerful spells... but the adept level spells can reach the same effect... but with twice mana and casters.... but that's not really an issue: I didn't need to get the expensive techs and pay the upgrade....